(Sorry for the previous post, it is my first post and the images did not appear correctly. I ask the administrator to delete the post. Thank you very much)
Russian enamel cup
Russian enamel cup
Good evening, I present to you this little mug that I recently acquired. Recently I started to be curious about Russian punches, if I'm not mistaken this brand is from Moscow and the assayer is Hc. What do you think? any curiosity? All regards
(Sorry for the previous post, it is my first post and the images did not appear correctly. I ask the administrator to delete the post. Thank you very much)
(Sorry for the previous post, it is my first post and the images did not appear correctly. I ask the administrator to delete the post. Thank you very much)
Re: Russian enamel cup
You are partly mistaken but yes the cup is Russian and made in Moscow but the assayer is not HC who is the maker. Unfortunately it is rather difficult to tell who the maker is because there are a few alternatives. According to the law it was forbidden to use the same makers initials in a punch at the same time in the same town. Unfortunately this law was not always obeyed and this usually the result; so who is it?
Mind my asking but are there any marks on the handle?
The assayer is AC (Latin AS) that is Aleksandr Smirnoff in Moscow. He was active 1857-1895.
You wrote that you have recently started to be interested in Russian silver. Take my advice and do not buy anything if you don't understand the markings i.e punches, their location and what the mean etc.. Unfortunately the market (especially internet) is crowded with fakes. Buying a fake can can turn out to be costly mistake. Who wants that?
This is a rather good start: https://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html
Mind my asking but are there any marks on the handle?
The assayer is AC (Latin AS) that is Aleksandr Smirnoff in Moscow. He was active 1857-1895.
You wrote that you have recently started to be interested in Russian silver. Take my advice and do not buy anything if you don't understand the markings i.e punches, their location and what the mean etc.. Unfortunately the market (especially internet) is crowded with fakes. Buying a fake can can turn out to be costly mistake. Who wants that?
This is a rather good start: https://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html
Re: Russian enamel cup
Hello!
Alexander Skavronsky ("АС") is a probirer, but this is not so important.
Most likely, it was made in the Moscow silver workshop of Ivan Saltykov (Иван Салтыков,"ИС").
Alexander Skavronsky ("АС") is a probirer, but this is not so important.
Most likely, it was made in the Moscow silver workshop of Ivan Saltykov (Иван Салтыков,"ИС").
Re: Russian enamel cup
It is important! To my understanding Skovronskij (Сковронский) assayed in Moscow as from 1895 (possibly already 1894) to 1908 in Moscow. Then he went to Transkaukasia 1909-1915. The cup shows the year 1892...
In my opinion it is essential that the assayer's working period must at least partly match with the master's period.
Yes the maker's mark could also show ИС. But, to my understanding Saltykov's punch's has a rectangular frame and lacks cut corners like it is here, but he could have had several punches...Saltykov made objects in cloisonné, so...? The ИС punch has even more alternative names but Saltykov will do due to the cloisonné work.
In my opinion it is essential that the assayer's working period must at least partly match with the master's period.
Yes the maker's mark could also show ИС. But, to my understanding Saltykov's punch's has a rectangular frame and lacks cut corners like it is here, but he could have had several punches...Saltykov made objects in cloisonné, so...? The ИС punch has even more alternative names but Saltykov will do due to the cloisonné work.
Re: Russian enamel cup
Skavronsky replaced probirer Rudolf Würst in 1892.
At that time, Alexander Smirnov was no longer working at the Moscow assay office. Moreover, he had not been a probirer for over 10 years. He was the head of the Moscow assay office.
At that time, Alexander Smirnov was no longer working at the Moscow assay office. Moreover, he had not been a probirer for over 10 years. He was the head of the Moscow assay office.
Re: Russian enamel cup
So Alexander Skavronsky, replacing Rudolf Würst, was the assayer of this cup and that coincides perfectly with Ivan Saltykov ("Иван Салтыков,"ИС"), and this silversmith also made works in cloisonne, which gives more strength to the story, right?
I don't appreciate any more silver marks on the cup
Do you have great knowledge of silversmithing, any books on Russian silversmiths?
I don't appreciate any more silver marks on the cup
Do you have great knowledge of silversmithing, any books on Russian silversmiths?
Re: Russian enamel cup
After researching Russian sources, I have found information confirming that Aleksandr Smirnoff stopped working as a precious metal assayer around 1881 and took the position of director of the Moscow appraisal office. In 1892, Aleksandr Skavronsky replaced him as assayer in the same office.
This information is found in Russian historical records detailing the structure and changes in the administration of the Moscow assessment office during that period. These documents indicate that Smirnoff played a key role in supervising and administering precious metals appraisal in Moscow, while Skavronsky took charge of direct appraisals starting in 1892.
For more details on this topic, it is recommended to consult Russian historical archives or publications specializing in the history of goldsmithing and the evaluation of precious metals in Russia.
This information is found in Russian historical records detailing the structure and changes in the administration of the Moscow assessment office during that period. These documents indicate that Smirnoff played a key role in supervising and administering precious metals appraisal in Moscow, while Skavronsky took charge of direct appraisals starting in 1892.
For more details on this topic, it is recommended to consult Russian historical archives or publications specializing in the history of goldsmithing and the evaluation of precious metals in Russia.
Re: Russian enamel cup
In a forum I found the files that I am trying to download, in the forum they only uploaded screenshots of the documents.
Вся Москва. Адресная и справочная книга на 1896 год
Вся Москва. Адресная и справочная книга на 1896 год
Re: Russian enamel cup
Old books contain a lot of mistakes. I don't advise you to trust them too much.
Alexander Smirnov was appointed director of the Moscow assay office in the late summer of 1878. He decided to resign in the winter of 1891 due to illness. Therefore, the laboratory assistant Skavronsky could not replace the former director of the office in 1892. I already told you who he replaced earlier.
The information you have provided cannot be contained in "Russian historical documents."
Good luck!
Alexander Smirnov was appointed director of the Moscow assay office in the late summer of 1878. He decided to resign in the winter of 1891 due to illness. Therefore, the laboratory assistant Skavronsky could not replace the former director of the office in 1892. I already told you who he replaced earlier.
The information you have provided cannot be contained in "Russian historical documents."
Good luck!
Re: Russian enamel cup
Hello. It took me a pain to find the information but in the end after searching the Адресъ-Клендарь books from 1892 I managed to access the information thanks to gpt chat you can search and translate the parts that are from the Moscow office, I found those books downloadable on the internet archives website. Thank you all very much for your help