Hello,
I'm working on a new book on French hallmarks, after my other one on official marks.
This one will (hopefully) list all the NOTABLE French maker's marks after 1789. There are several books that list many, perhaps most French maker's marks, but my project is to ONLY list the marks of NOTABLE makers, those whose articles are always worth more than the price of metal.
Of course, it's not too difficult to find the marks of Cartier, Van Cleef, Boucheron etc, but what I also need are all their subcontractors, because when you find the mark of a known subcontractor on a Cartier object, that helps to date and authenticate it.
There are a number of experts and dealers who have their own listings of these marks, but they generally refuse to share their information with me. They consider that they worked to build up this information and don't feel like sharing it.
The problem is that these very same dealers have big collections of books, as they avidly purchase the fruit of other people's research, but they're not prepared to give anything back to the field in which they've made a good living.
I've always freely shared all my knowledge, on my website and in my books, and it pains me to see this greedy and selfish attitude in so many dealers.
I hope some of you out there can help me with photos of hallmarks. I've found when researching to believe virtually nothing that's been published unless I can check it myself - all I really believe to be provable is a hallmark I can examine or of which I have a photo, drawn designs that are published are not trustworthy to me, though I don't mind receiving them if nothing better can be found.
So, please help me if you can.
mike@bijoux.expert
Help with French hallmarks
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bijoux.expert
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Re: Help with French hallmarks
Hi,
You mention: Cartier, Van Cleef, Boucheron, etc. For me Hermès lacks in this list. And I am sure there are more famous brands. Ravinet d'Enfert worked as a subcontractor for Hermès (silverwork). As was Émile-Maurice Hermès (1875-1951). Nowadays Puiforcat works as a subcontractor for Hermès. See this forum. Several posts. So, maybe you should start the other way around. Not to start with the subcontractors, but tot start with the famous names like Cartier, Van Cleef, Boucheron and then find out who the subcontractor was/is. Not always easy. I know an example in the Netherlands from a famous brand in the early 20e century "Steltman" where the subcontractor is still unknown. Steltman won a European price for the best silverwork in about 1925, but the subcontractor/maker is a miracle to me.
You mention: Cartier, Van Cleef, Boucheron, etc. For me Hermès lacks in this list. And I am sure there are more famous brands. Ravinet d'Enfert worked as a subcontractor for Hermès (silverwork). As was Émile-Maurice Hermès (1875-1951). Nowadays Puiforcat works as a subcontractor for Hermès. See this forum. Several posts. So, maybe you should start the other way around. Not to start with the subcontractors, but tot start with the famous names like Cartier, Van Cleef, Boucheron and then find out who the subcontractor was/is. Not always easy. I know an example in the Netherlands from a famous brand in the early 20e century "Steltman" where the subcontractor is still unknown. Steltman won a European price for the best silverwork in about 1925, but the subcontractor/maker is a miracle to me.
Re: Help with French hallmarks
Here are some comments about your request.
Are you inquiring about French maker’s marks or hallmarks? There is a difference, but you use the terms interchangeably.
If the former, what is your definition of a “notable” maker other than current value in the secondary market? You have mentioned mostly jewellers.
There are well-known, reliable published sources that illustrate French maker’s marks after 1789. Arminjon comes to mind for Paris and Lyon makers.
As for subcontractors, in the 18th and 19th Centuries (and perhaps earlier) French makers relied on colleagues for mutual assistance based on physical proximity, family relationships, or other ties. In some cases there might have been formal contracts between makers, and in others it was informal arrangements to help fulfill large orders. Sometimes subcontractors stamped their own maker’s mark on an object, sometimes they did not, depending on circumstances of the collaboration.
To explain my point, two of the greatest 18th C French silversmiths, François-Thomas Germain and Nicolas Cornu, collaborated regularly on prestigious orders for Germain, who was the only one to stamp.
A 19th C example is Odiot who subcontracted their flatware manufacture to Jean Granvigne. Granvigne did not stamp for Odiot, but he did stamp flatware he sold as a wholesaler in the same models he made for Odiot. Another example is Christofle who subcontracted their 950 standard silver manufacture to Cardeilhac, who also did not stamp until Christofle bought the firm in 1951. Yet another example is Biennais who subcontracted all his silver objects, not being a silversmith himself.
There are retail merchants who have no silver manufacturing capabilities, but sell silver objects made by subcontractors. Hermès is a good example of this.
And finally, in the 19th C there were myriad jobbers/wholesalers who made objects for the retail trade with only a silver standard mark (Minerva) but without a maker’s mark. Retailers may or may not have added their mark.
A complicated situation. Therefore you might wish to better define the parameters of your search.
You get to know about subcontracting arrangements through published sources, through archival research, and from experience. In my opinion it isn’t “greedy and selfish” not to share with those who haven’t done the initial legwork. Also you state that you are skeptical about information that is shared with you, which is off-putting.
Good luck with your research!
Are you inquiring about French maker’s marks or hallmarks? There is a difference, but you use the terms interchangeably.
If the former, what is your definition of a “notable” maker other than current value in the secondary market? You have mentioned mostly jewellers.
There are well-known, reliable published sources that illustrate French maker’s marks after 1789. Arminjon comes to mind for Paris and Lyon makers.
As for subcontractors, in the 18th and 19th Centuries (and perhaps earlier) French makers relied on colleagues for mutual assistance based on physical proximity, family relationships, or other ties. In some cases there might have been formal contracts between makers, and in others it was informal arrangements to help fulfill large orders. Sometimes subcontractors stamped their own maker’s mark on an object, sometimes they did not, depending on circumstances of the collaboration.
To explain my point, two of the greatest 18th C French silversmiths, François-Thomas Germain and Nicolas Cornu, collaborated regularly on prestigious orders for Germain, who was the only one to stamp.
A 19th C example is Odiot who subcontracted their flatware manufacture to Jean Granvigne. Granvigne did not stamp for Odiot, but he did stamp flatware he sold as a wholesaler in the same models he made for Odiot. Another example is Christofle who subcontracted their 950 standard silver manufacture to Cardeilhac, who also did not stamp until Christofle bought the firm in 1951. Yet another example is Biennais who subcontracted all his silver objects, not being a silversmith himself.
There are retail merchants who have no silver manufacturing capabilities, but sell silver objects made by subcontractors. Hermès is a good example of this.
And finally, in the 19th C there were myriad jobbers/wholesalers who made objects for the retail trade with only a silver standard mark (Minerva) but without a maker’s mark. Retailers may or may not have added their mark.
A complicated situation. Therefore you might wish to better define the parameters of your search.
You get to know about subcontracting arrangements through published sources, through archival research, and from experience. In my opinion it isn’t “greedy and selfish” not to share with those who haven’t done the initial legwork. Also you state that you are skeptical about information that is shared with you, which is off-putting.
Good luck with your research!