Teaspoon with Odiot, Minerve, & other mystery marks, hel

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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nicholas1979
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:44 pm

Teaspoon with Odiot, Minerve, & other mystery marks, hel

Post by nicholas1979 »

I have here a teaspoon with 4 marks that I need help in identifying and making sense of.

It is in an art deco pattern with knots and Egyptian-looking flower motifs. I could not find the pattern among Odiot's current ones.

The marks are:

1. On the front left, a diamond lozenge with an HT above a star and below what appears to be a crescent moon. Both are centered above the HT. I tried desperately to get a picture but could not. I thought it might be Henin but could not find a mark for them like this (or with the T). I also tried the French govt's silver hallmark website looking for makers that might have the HT initials, but also nothing. Does anyone know a maker that uses this mark? Is it perhaps not a French maker? But then why the Minerve?

2. On the front right, the Minerve mark in a rectangular lozenge with the cut-off corners.

3. On the back left of the spoon, what appears to be a grasshopper with a raised line crossing it (sorry, couldn't photograph either). It does not look like the weevil, though I cannot think of any other possibility; it is not the crab because the lozenge is a rectangular shape, and not the diamond rounded one usually around the crab. Is this an import mark, perhaps? If so, why is it not listed anywhere? Is there much variation in the weevil?

4. Finally, on the back stem of the spoon, the name 'Odiot' spelled out. It does not include 'a Paris' or a model number.

My questions, other than the identification of the marks, regard the juxtaposition of both the Odiot name and another silversmith's hallmark. Is this common?

Many thanks!

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2209patrick
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Post by 2209patrick »

Hello.
Sorry I can't help.
Just thought I'd show you the Thomas & Henin mark c.1865.

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Pat.
blakstone
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Post by blakstone »

I'm pretty sure the maker is the Hippolyte Thomas, later the Thomas of Thomas & Henin. His mark from 1845-1855 was exactly like the one the 2209patrick posts, but with the initials "HT". His mark from 1855-1861 was the same, but in that one the upper device - a rosebud - could easily be mistaken for a chili pepper or, indeed, a crescent. He was a very skilled flatware maker.

The grasshopper is probably a bigorne mark: when the Minerva mark is struck, it's done on an anvil finely engraved with all manner of little insects. This acts as a sort of anti-counterfeiting device. The two marks should be in exactly the same spot but on opposing sides; put your forefinger on Minerva and your thumb on the grasshopper to see if they are.

Hope this helps!
nicholas1979
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:44 pm

Thanks!

Post by nicholas1979 »

Thanks so much for your replies, I really appreciate it!
Mary7
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:18 am

Thanks for Posting the French Hallmarks and Makers' Marks

Post by Mary7 »

Thanks to all who have been posting information on french marks - I now know the maker of my soup ladle (Thomas & Henin)! I had given up hope of identifying the maker. I look forward to seeing more french makers' marks and hope to contribute some photos myself - thanks again! Mary
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