pair of carvers Art Nouveau? mark? France? Pls help identify

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:09 pm

Dear group, I recently aquired a pair of carvers. According to the seller they were found in a case in France, when an old house was torn down. They were crusted with rust and dirt. I have started cleaning them and would love to find out what exacly I got. I searched all your site, but cannot identify the hallmark. Unfortunately there is not much of it visible. I would also like to find out how exactly the movable attachment to the fork is used. I found pointers with Google that it might be something to get the piece of meat off the work after cutting, but cannot quite imagine how this would work.

Any pointers to resources or direct information much appreciated
Best Regards
HiMan

Please click on thumbnails to see a larger image

Knife is 30.5 cm long and weights 95 gramms
Fork is 26 cm long and weigths 120 gramms

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:23 pm

PS: Looks like the thumbnail view for one of the images did not work. Try again

And please correct "...get the piece of meat off the fork after cutting", typo sorry

Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:49 pm

Hi,
The mark on the blade is a cutler's mark, the only silver mark is the one on the handle and the picture does not give much to go on. Please describe it.

Regards, Tom

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:02 pm

Hi Tom,

thank you for your interest. Unfortunately not much to describe. It looks like a very small sign (taking up approx. a third of the lowered area of the mark. I will try a new picture tomorrow in daylight. I do have a simple magnifying glass, but that does not help me much either.

Best Regards
HiMan

byron mac donald · Post by **byron mac donald** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:24 am

Hi man!

I do not know for sure but does the lever move the second tine up between the first and third? If it does, perhaps it is meant to pinch a thin slice of meat, such as a thin slice of turkey. It would then make sense to me; a person could start the slice with the knife and then hold on to it with the pinching action as the slice is continued?

Regards- Byron

Post by **dragonflywink** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:15 am

It's a safety-guard to keep one from slicing into fingers.

~Cheryl

byron mac donald · Post by **byron mac donald** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:03 pm

Cheryl-

That is what I thought too, but it is movable and seems a bit to large for a safety guard; why would it be movable?

Byron

Post by **dragonflywink** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:17 pm

Some type of folding hand or finger guard is common on carving set forks, makes the piece much easier to store, not to mention more aesthetically pleasing, when not in use.

~Cheryl

byron mac donald · Post by **byron mac donald** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:00 pm

That makes sense, thanks.

Byron

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:00 pm

Hi Cheryl, Hi Byron,

finger guard sounds interesting.
Cheryl, could you eleborate how it is supposed to work. Can't really imagine how. The fork is in the meat. You cut with the blade down, the moved out "finger" on the fork stands out at 90Â° degrees and would be above the blade of the knife. Really I guess I'm lacking imagination, how would I cut myself with one hand on the fork handle and the other on the knife handle? I guess, I'm missing something.

Best Regards
HiMan

byron mac donald · Post by **byron mac donald** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:36 pm

Himan-

I googled "carving fork with guard" and they are out there. The difference is that yours protrudes from the side and the ones I have found protrude from the back. Could this be due to regional customs and how the fork is held? I do not know, but Cheryls explanation is plausable to me, if all it does is move in and out.

Byron

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:31 pm

Hi Byron,

thanks! Using the same search phrase as you, I found this explanation
http://www.culliners.co.uk/index.php?ma ... ucts_id=44" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"the guard prevents the knife accidently sliding over the fork handle."
And maybe the picture is misleading. The so called guard on my fork also portrudes from the back of the fork.

So I guess that's settled, even though I still don't understand why anybody would need this kind of guard. Why/how should the knife slide over the handle whilst moving it down, blade downwards? And even if, the blade is down, what could happen?

Best Regards
HiMan

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:35 pm

Hello group,

a new try at taking a better picture of the hallmark

Is ist "Kreuzband"? Art Nouveau? Any pointer to France?

Best Regards
HiMan

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:29 pm

Now I understand the guard "thing". Finally found a small illustration of use (modern knife). It shows how a piece is cut of a chicken from bottom to top, in other words from plate towards fork, knife blade facing up. And even I can clearly see how the guard would keep the blade from reaching the handle of the fork with your fingers.
Thanks again Cheryl!

Best Regards
HiMan

byron mac donald · Post by **byron mac donald** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:24 am

Hi Man-

Care to share the illustration you found? Because I still do not get it, even with chicken I carve from the top down to the platter.

Byron

Post by **dognose** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:26 am

Hi,

The mark is still difficult to make out, but could be Austro-Hungarian 1872-1922, 900 Standard.
Check out World Hallmarks on the Home Page.

Trev.

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:53 am

Hi Trev,

now that you mention it, it could be a Diana head. But I'm really not sure, if I really see remenants of it, or if if I just see, what I want.

Somehow I cannot see, how the cartouche shape would fit for Austro-Hungarian 1872-1922, 900 Standard.

Best Regards
HiMan

HiMan · Post by **HiMan** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:30 am

Hi Byron,

I tried a private message, but that caused my IE to close with an unknown exeption. My last public post included a sorry I cannot post the link, because of the forum rules, but that text part "dissapeared" (I guess, because a nono word was there).

You can view the image here
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4708 ... pleej6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And same as you, I have never cut like that, but understand now what is meant.

Best Regards
HiMan