So far I was able to find the following information:
Assay Master - Dmitri Tyversko (1849)
City Mark - St. Petersburg
Zolotniki - 84
All responses are welcome, thank you very much!
Rommie
.
Russian Silver Pitcher "Who's the silversmith?"
Russian Silver Pitcher "Who's the silversmith?"
Please help me identify the maker of this Russian silver piece!.
So far I was able to find the following information:
Assay Master - Dmitri Tyversko (1849)
City Mark - St. Petersburg
Zolotniki - 84
All responses are welcome, thank you very much!
Rommie
.
So far I was able to find the following information:
Assay Master - Dmitri Tyversko (1849)
City Mark - St. Petersburg
Zolotniki - 84
All responses are welcome, thank you very much!
Rommie
.
Cream jug
Hi,
The assay masters name is Dimitrij Ilyich Tverskoy and he worked in St.Petersburg.
The name of the silversmith is Joseph Nordberg and he was born in Finland in 1817. He came to St.Petersburg in 1844 and became master there in 1848.
Regards,
Juhana
.
The assay masters name is Dimitrij Ilyich Tverskoy and he worked in St.Petersburg.
The name of the silversmith is Joseph Nordberg and he was born in Finland in 1817. He came to St.Petersburg in 1844 and became master there in 1848.
Regards,
Juhana
.
Hi,
The assay master is as mentioned earlier Dimitri Tverskoy (assaying 1834-1851in St:P). IN are letters in Latin not in Cyrillic. The silversmith is a Finn, Joseph Nordberg, who was born 5 of May1817 in Finland. He became master 1848 and had his workshop in the house of Baldovski on the canal street of Ligovskavo in St: Petersburg. He marked from 1848-1887 and had several journeymen working for him. He married 15 November 1841 Catharina Margaretha Ã…berg who was born in Wisby Sweden. JN died 1 of September 1887.
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The assay master is as mentioned earlier Dimitri Tverskoy (assaying 1834-1851in St:P). IN are letters in Latin not in Cyrillic. The silversmith is a Finn, Joseph Nordberg, who was born 5 of May1817 in Finland. He became master 1848 and had his workshop in the house of Baldovski on the canal street of Ligovskavo in St: Petersburg. He marked from 1848-1887 and had several journeymen working for him. He married 15 November 1841 Catharina Margaretha Ã…berg who was born in Wisby Sweden. JN died 1 of September 1887.
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Joseph Nordberg
Dear Juhana & Qrt.S :
Hello. Thank you for the quick response. I'm very glad that two of you knew the answer to my question!
It was a bit of surprise to me that the piece was made by a non-Russian silversmith. I am wondering if it was uncommon for a Finnish silversmith to move and become a master in Russia in the mid 19th century. I am now so curious about Joseph Nordberg and would love to learn more about him and his life that any tip you guys might have about him is greatly appreciated.
Another question I have about this silver piece is that what this thing was used for. I should have mentioned the size in the first place. It's about 10cm high, 7cm in diameter. The capacity is about 300ml. To me it seems a bit too large to be called a cream jug and too small to be a water pitcher. Was it used to pour gravy perhaps?
Thank you for your attention!
Rommie
.
Hello. Thank you for the quick response. I'm very glad that two of you knew the answer to my question!
It was a bit of surprise to me that the piece was made by a non-Russian silversmith. I am wondering if it was uncommon for a Finnish silversmith to move and become a master in Russia in the mid 19th century. I am now so curious about Joseph Nordberg and would love to learn more about him and his life that any tip you guys might have about him is greatly appreciated.
Another question I have about this silver piece is that what this thing was used for. I should have mentioned the size in the first place. It's about 10cm high, 7cm in diameter. The capacity is about 300ml. To me it seems a bit too large to be called a cream jug and too small to be a water pitcher. Was it used to pour gravy perhaps?
Thank you for your attention!
Rommie
.
Actually it was quite common for Finnish silversmiths to work in St.Petersburg. There were two guilds, one for foreigners (which counted for example Finnish, Swedish etc silversmiths) and one for russians. It has been calculated that a fourth of the all silversmiths in St.Petersburg were from Finland or Sweden in the beginning of the 20th century. One must also remember that Finland was part of the Russian empire in the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century until WWI. St.Petersburg was a big market so many decided to move there for good earning potentials, it was almost like domestic market.
I believe what has been written here is quite much what is available in the records of Joseph Nordberg and it is good to remember that there where thousands of silversmiths in Russia in those days so this much is known of him.
It is a cream jug, in those days the cream jugs were much larger than today. Reasons was that Russians like impressive size things and the cream was much more used in those days.
.
I believe what has been written here is quite much what is available in the records of Joseph Nordberg and it is good to remember that there where thousands of silversmiths in Russia in those days so this much is known of him.
It is a cream jug, in those days the cream jugs were much larger than today. Reasons was that Russians like impressive size things and the cream was much more used in those days.
.
Unfortunately there is not much to add to what is already mentioned as Juke also told you. But since you’re so eagerly gathering information about IN here is some additional minor notes.
Before that, however, it is good to know that there is a major problem regarding information on Russian silversmiths. Sometimes around the change of the century an archive containing vital documents of ancient Russian gold- and silversmiths were destroyed as unnecessary. Due to that senseless thing to burn the documents there is very little information left.
Anyway, Joseph N. started his carrier as an apprentice 15 of July 1833 by working in goldsmith Gabriel Wahlbäck’s workshop in Helsinki, Finland. He became a journeyman 6 of July 1837. The same year (or maybe 1844) he moved at first to Tsarskoye Selo in Russia and became a goldsmith there. According to the available information he lived in St: Petersburg in 1867 on Rozhdestvenskaya Street 38. He moved later to Podjacheskaya Street 22 and finally to his already mentioned address.
A minor correction, he had at least three, maybe five apprentices not journeymen in his workshop. I know their names but that is hardly of any interest.
The above mentioned is all information I have available. I'm sorry but I cannot guarantee the authenticity of it. I hope it vill still do for you ;-)
.
Before that, however, it is good to know that there is a major problem regarding information on Russian silversmiths. Sometimes around the change of the century an archive containing vital documents of ancient Russian gold- and silversmiths were destroyed as unnecessary. Due to that senseless thing to burn the documents there is very little information left.
Anyway, Joseph N. started his carrier as an apprentice 15 of July 1833 by working in goldsmith Gabriel Wahlbäck’s workshop in Helsinki, Finland. He became a journeyman 6 of July 1837. The same year (or maybe 1844) he moved at first to Tsarskoye Selo in Russia and became a goldsmith there. According to the available information he lived in St: Petersburg in 1867 on Rozhdestvenskaya Street 38. He moved later to Podjacheskaya Street 22 and finally to his already mentioned address.
A minor correction, he had at least three, maybe five apprentices not journeymen in his workshop. I know their names but that is hardly of any interest.
The above mentioned is all information I have available. I'm sorry but I cannot guarantee the authenticity of it. I hope it vill still do for you ;-)
.
Hello, Juhana & Qrt.S.
Thank you so much for the additional information. It was very interesting to read your answers and learn more about this piece. The knowlege and understanding you two have is fantastic! If possible, I would like to ask for your kindness and patience to take a look at some more of trifling questions I have about this silver piece:
1. As seen in the image above, marking of assay/city/zolotniki was done nicely with clarity. Contrary to those, Nordberg's mark looks lacking a precision as if it was done when he was tipsy. I'm wondering what caused to have an amoeba look-like marking.
2 I'm guessing cream jugs like this one were wide spread in the mid 19th century. But I'm curious to know if more of this kind of cream jugs were used in a certain type of house hold such as peasantry,bourgiosie or aristcrats back then.
Thanks for your time and attention to my questions.
Rommie
.
Thank you so much for the additional information. It was very interesting to read your answers and learn more about this piece. The knowlege and understanding you two have is fantastic! If possible, I would like to ask for your kindness and patience to take a look at some more of trifling questions I have about this silver piece:
1. As seen in the image above, marking of assay/city/zolotniki was done nicely with clarity. Contrary to those, Nordberg's mark looks lacking a precision as if it was done when he was tipsy. I'm wondering what caused to have an amoeba look-like marking.
2 I'm guessing cream jugs like this one were wide spread in the mid 19th century. But I'm curious to know if more of this kind of cream jugs were used in a certain type of house hold such as peasantry,bourgiosie or aristcrats back then.
Thanks for your time and attention to my questions.
Rommie
.
Hi,
For the first question it is quite simple, the makers mark was struck by Joseph Nordberg and assay/city/zolotniki marks were struck by the assay master. Well I guess Joseph N. was not tipsy when he struck the mark even that the russians like their vodka ;-). The makers mark has just worn out during 160 years of polishing.
You are correct that the coffee and teaservices started to come much more widespread from around 1840's with the rise of the bourgeoisie class. Your creamjug originally included in a tea and/or coffee service but it is typical that these services have been divided in partitions of inheritances. So it can be quite surely said that your cream jug was originally owned by a bourgeoisie perhaps a merchant, or then by a military person. Peasants can be quite surely excluded, possibly there can have been a wealthy one. For the nobility they mostly engraved their coat of arms in their silver.
Qrt.S might like to add his comments, he has a good knowledge of these things.
Regards,
Juhana
.
For the first question it is quite simple, the makers mark was struck by Joseph Nordberg and assay/city/zolotniki marks were struck by the assay master. Well I guess Joseph N. was not tipsy when he struck the mark even that the russians like their vodka ;-). The makers mark has just worn out during 160 years of polishing.
You are correct that the coffee and teaservices started to come much more widespread from around 1840's with the rise of the bourgeoisie class. Your creamjug originally included in a tea and/or coffee service but it is typical that these services have been divided in partitions of inheritances. So it can be quite surely said that your cream jug was originally owned by a bourgeoisie perhaps a merchant, or then by a military person. Peasants can be quite surely excluded, possibly there can have been a wealthy one. For the nobility they mostly engraved their coat of arms in their silver.
Qrt.S might like to add his comments, he has a good knowledge of these things.
Regards,
Juhana
.
Dear Juhana:
I appreciate your time answering all those questions so patiently. I was thrilled to find out a little bit of the historical background of the silver piece. All the information and tips you've provided are very invaluable and educational to me, I'll treasure them for long. ( As well as the jug).
Thanks again.
Rommie
.
I appreciate your time answering all those questions so patiently. I was thrilled to find out a little bit of the historical background of the silver piece. All the information and tips you've provided are very invaluable and educational to me, I'll treasure them for long. ( As well as the jug).
Thanks again.
Rommie
.
I’m afraid that there is still hardly anything to add. Reading what have been said only gives me one thing to comment on. That is that the Russians tend to drink their tea sometimes with milk. I might be that this pitcher is a stand-alone piece meant for the tea table. However I’m not sure at all.
There are always stories about drinking tea with milk or is it milk with tea? Some people say that the Russians pour first hot milk and then add the tea, while the English way is pouring first tea and the adding the hot milk…or were it the other way? :-)
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There are always stories about drinking tea with milk or is it milk with tea? Some people say that the Russians pour first hot milk and then add the tea, while the English way is pouring first tea and the adding the hot milk…or were it the other way? :-)
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