Help with a russian basket

besserwisser901 · Post by **besserwisser901** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:10 pm

hallo, can sombody tell me something about the basket ?

http://www.MyEasyPics.com/is.php?i=616937&img=korb.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.MyEasyPics.com/is.php?i=616939&img=2001.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

russia without silver stemp
cry: H.A 1834
Master stemp: A.T.

thanks alex
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Juke · Post by **Juke** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:48 am

Hi!

If those three marks are all the marks then in my opinion this I would consider a fake as the marks are not according to the marking system in russia. Possibly done in one of the Sovjet states/satellites as the filigree work looks typical to 20th century items.

Also some cautious should be left for the previous items as also religious items are known to be faked, if possible check from a wellknown auction house.

Regards,
Juke
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:15 am

I share Juke's opinion, it is a spurious item.
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besserwisser901 · Post by **besserwisser901** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:20 am

I think thats not a fake because i bought it on an official auction. It was very destroyed. I gave it to a goldsmith and he cleaned and restaurated it.
Can somebody tell me the silversmith and the assaymaster of this basket`?

thanks alex
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Juke · Post by **Juke** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:29 pm

Hi!

The russian marking system on silver had very strickt rules. The basics of it is that all silver items made in russia should have four marks:
- silversmiths mark
- purity mark
- town/district mark
- assaymasters mark.

Only exception is the silver items imported to russia (as also indicated by Qrt.S) which don't have the makers mark.

If any silversmith or assay master did not obey these rules the punishments were hard.

As the basket is not marked according to these basics one must consider that it is a fake (it is typical that people who make forgeries do not know all the rules as they are quite complex so it is easier to notice the forgeries).

You mention that the basket would have been very destroyed so there is always a possibility that some of the marks had also been destroyed. Anyway I would think that this is more guessing than verifying that it is a genuine russian silver basket. Please check also if you can find marks on the handle as it should also be marked.

Regards,
Juke
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:24 am

Ok, let’s assume that the basket is genuine. In that case what are the answers to the following questions:
1. Is there additional marks on the handle, foots and the “wall”? These parts are detachable and should carry separate marks according to the rules.
2. Does the mark to the right show the number 90 (or what)? If it is 90, I can tell you that there is no such purity/quality as 90 zolotniki.
3. Where is the town mark? It must carry one. If there is a town mark, please show it.
4. What are the assayer\s initials, Ð˜Ð, Ð˜Ð” or what?
5. Is the year 1836, or what?
Kindly provide the answers and I revert to the matter. Anyway, as Juke mentioned, there is a slight possibility that marks have been destroyed in connection with the damage. However, it is also a trick to “explain” missing and/or incorrect marks on a forgery. Unfortunately there are a lot of forgeries circulating nowadays.

Buying something on an auction doesn't unfortunately verify anything, it needs a bit more.

Of course there is always a minor chance that your basket is genuine, but with the shown/known facts it is very doubtful for now.
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