unknown marks and silver purity

[prophet510]

i have two items that i can't find info on. the first is a small pitcher and on the bottom stamped is a maltese cross with a crown above it, a bull head, and something i can not make out. the second item is a platter with grapes and grape leaves border. on the back is stamped a lion, a bell, and the fleur de leiin one row then in the next row there is an arm and hammer, a bell, and another arm and hammer. there is also the numner 8601 and what appears to be the letters I B E. just wondering if any one knows the age and the purity of these items.



http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss59 ... y09103.jpg

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[2209patrick]

Hello and welcome.

Believe the crown over a cross mark is a late 18th century Italian mark.

Pat.
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[dognose]

Hi,

I agree with Pat, Italian, but I have that mark as used in Turin 1824-72 for 800/1000 standard. Of course, there may well have been a similar one in use earlier, if so, then Pat's dating might well be correct.

The 'Bulls Head' mark appears to be the city mark of Norden in the Netherlands, but I stand to be corrected.

Can you try to get a clearer image of the other marks?

Trev.
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[blakstone]

Technically, the cross here is called the cross of Saints Maurice & Lazarus and is the symbol of an order of chivalry created by the House of Savoy. Dognose is correct: it was used 1824-1873 in the Kingdom Piedmont & Sardinia as the mark for large items of second standard (.800) silver. (Other Italian territories began to use this mark as they joined the kingdom during the Risorgimento.)

While this mark was used throughout the kingdom, not just Turin, the bull’s head here was in fact the symbol of the assay office in Turin.

I can’t make out the other marks, though one of them should logically be the maker’s mark. A clearer picture might help.
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[admin]

The crowned cross of St. Maurice and St. Lazarus was used in the Kingdom of Sardinia to denote 800 standard from 1824 to the early 1870s (I think), Bull's head is for Turin or Torino. The overstamped mark would probably be for the maker and I don't recognize the smaller mark.

Regards, Tom
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[prophet510]

thank you all for the information. it is very helpful. i tried and tried to get a clearer picture of the smaller mark but failed.
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[dognose]

Hi,

If you cannot get a clear photo, try drawing the mark and post the scan.

Trev.
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[admin]

Hi Prophet,
a link to an uncropped large version of a couple of your latest photo efforts just may help with the small mark. They don't have to be clearer, but a few different shots will allow some comparison.

Tom

ps. darn, I got sniped again
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[naina1st]

Dear members,
I have been searching forum to identify some extra marks on the fork by G.W. Adams hallmarked in London in 1865. They are exactly the cross of St. Maurice & Lazarus and dolphin in circle. I am happy enough to find that those marks were in use in the Kingdom of Piedmont & Sardinia in 1824-1872 (thanks to my favorite blakstone!)

Technically, the cross here is called the cross of Saints Maurice & Lazarus and is the symbol of an order of chivalry created by the House of Savoy. Dognose is correct: it was used 1824-1873 in the Kingdom Piedmont & Sardinia as the mark for large items of second standard (.800) silver. (Other Italian territories began to use this mark as they joined the kingdom during the Risorgimento).

Dolphin in a circle was Genoa mark in the same period (thanks to admin!).
Meanwhile I do feel some uncertainty...

1. Use of the Cross St. Maurice for 2nd standard (.800)? What was the 1st standard and mark?
My fork is made in England (Ag925) and has been imported to Italy and stamped with domestic hallmark for Ag800(?).
2. Why there is also Genoa mark? What exactly this mark mean? Recognition mark? Import mark?

Thanks to everybody for comments, if any.
naina1st
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