They have one mark: what looks like PR. It doesn't come across well in the photo, but the bowls are quite large. I'm hoping that someone will know where they were made from the style.
Miles
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Single Part Cast Tongs?
Single Part Cast Tongs?
Here is an interesting pair of cast tongs probably made in the 1770s. They are interesting because they seem to have been made in a single piece rather than the usual three.
They have one mark: what looks like PR. It doesn't come across well in the photo, but the bowls are quite large. I'm hoping that someone will know where they were made from the style.
Miles
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They have one mark: what looks like PR. It doesn't come across well in the photo, but the bowls are quite large. I'm hoping that someone will know where they were made from the style.
Miles
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Nice tongs. Also good to see someone able to accept a repaired item that's interesting. People with all perfect pieces tend to have boring collections. Or overdeep pockets
Absence, or overlaying of assay mark unfortune but look very British Isles. Sue has two pairs of Irish tongs with slightly convex arms and slightly larger bowls than normal. But also a Sheffield pair with similar features.
So an Irish Yorkshire pair ?
The crest is very interesting - I've only seen one buckle with a crest so it's really outside my knowledge . However this is according to Luddington "Starting to collect Silver" an Earl's Coronet page 195 . [ A chased circlet with five tall rays each topped with a silver ball and a small strawberry leaf between each pair of rays - sounds more like an exotic ice-cream sundae ].
It does actually seem to me, a total heraldic non -expert, that this may have belonged to the household of an Earl. Or some-one pretending to be an Earl .
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Absence, or overlaying of assay mark unfortune but look very British Isles. Sue has two pairs of Irish tongs with slightly convex arms and slightly larger bowls than normal. But also a Sheffield pair with similar features.
So an Irish Yorkshire pair ?
The crest is very interesting - I've only seen one buckle with a crest so it's really outside my knowledge . However this is according to Luddington "Starting to collect Silver" an Earl's Coronet page 195 . [ A chased circlet with five tall rays each topped with a silver ball and a small strawberry leaf between each pair of rays - sounds more like an exotic ice-cream sundae ].
It does actually seem to me, a total heraldic non -expert, that this may have belonged to the household of an Earl. Or some-one pretending to be an Earl .
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Thank you for your reply, Clive.
These tongs were from an up-market fine silver dealership near Harrods. When I bought them the shop keeper informed me rather snootily: "We don't usually sell sub-par goods".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the lesser aristocracy have their crest in combination with a coronet? The letters here have almost certainly been made by a different hand.
As for the place of origin I have no idea. The Adam engraving makes me lean towards London, but the inelegant bowls make me shy away.
Miles
PS Here is a site devoted to cast tongs: http://www.castsugartongs.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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These tongs were from an up-market fine silver dealership near Harrods. When I bought them the shop keeper informed me rather snootily: "We don't usually sell sub-par goods".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the lesser aristocracy have their crest in combination with a coronet? The letters here have almost certainly been made by a different hand.
As for the place of origin I have no idea. The Adam engraving makes me lean towards London, but the inelegant bowls make me shy away.
Miles
PS Here is a site devoted to cast tongs: http://www.castsugartongs.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Hi Miles
This is a heraldic Earls Coronet. Heraldry is a very exact science and ,as I understand it , this badge if at the bottom of a crest is meaningless, but at the top of a coat of arms is reserved for a family of an Earl. (Otherwise used by anyone else involves the removal of your bezants by the College of Arms !!!!!! ) My interpretation is that this is intended to be, or pretending to be, the property of an Earldom. I've seen the Ducal version on the backs of chairs with just the cypher of the contemporay Duke under.
I would not consider the arm decoration to be Adam but typical of the 1770 -1780 period for all regions. I've seen a very similar example on a Newcastle buckle of around 1777/78
Please advise the vendor, that if they do not usualy SELL sub - par goods , I will be delighted to come to Knightbridge and take all such things as a gift. Joining I think a very long queue!
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This is a heraldic Earls Coronet. Heraldry is a very exact science and ,as I understand it , this badge if at the bottom of a crest is meaningless, but at the top of a coat of arms is reserved for a family of an Earl. (Otherwise used by anyone else involves the removal of your bezants by the College of Arms !!!!!! ) My interpretation is that this is intended to be, or pretending to be, the property of an Earldom. I've seen the Ducal version on the backs of chairs with just the cypher of the contemporay Duke under.
I would not consider the arm decoration to be Adam but typical of the 1770 -1780 period for all regions. I've seen a very similar example on a Newcastle buckle of around 1777/78
Please advise the vendor, that if they do not usualy SELL sub - par goods , I will be delighted to come to Knightbridge and take all such things as a gift. Joining I think a very long queue!
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Tongtwister
- contributor
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:29 pm
- Location: England
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Hi Miles,
A lovely pair of tongs. I'm with Clive on these, I don't think the repair matters - they are still gorgeous. As to where they were made, thats interesting. There is definitely a possibility of Irish origin, the concavity of the arms helps lead to that conclusion, there are some similarities with the following (see http://www.silversugartongs.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) Daniel Popkins, John Power & IB/JB, however I'm not happy about the feather edging being Irish. This steers me back to London. See the William Fearn tongs on the web-site.
Just to add confusion to the issue, those bowls look very Scottish to me, but maybe I'm just being fanciful??
You identify them as "cast" tongs. I'm not so sure. The early tongs were made from a single piece of silver, rolled and cut. They were given their "concavity" to add strength. There's a nice pair of Stephen Adams I concave tongs with a feather edge on the web-site. Having said that your pair of tongs do look quite robust which tends to suggest casting. Can you see any of the usual rough finish, particularly in the bowls? This is a dead giveaway for casting. As for the maker - sorry I have no idea
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A lovely pair of tongs. I'm with Clive on these, I don't think the repair matters - they are still gorgeous. As to where they were made, thats interesting. There is definitely a possibility of Irish origin, the concavity of the arms helps lead to that conclusion, there are some similarities with the following (see http://www.silversugartongs.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) Daniel Popkins, John Power & IB/JB, however I'm not happy about the feather edging being Irish. This steers me back to London. See the William Fearn tongs on the web-site.
Just to add confusion to the issue, those bowls look very Scottish to me, but maybe I'm just being fanciful??
You identify them as "cast" tongs. I'm not so sure. The early tongs were made from a single piece of silver, rolled and cut. They were given their "concavity" to add strength. There's a nice pair of Stephen Adams I concave tongs with a feather edge on the web-site. Having said that your pair of tongs do look quite robust which tends to suggest casting. Can you see any of the usual rough finish, particularly in the bowls? This is a dead giveaway for casting. As for the maker - sorry I have no idea
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Hello All,
A trawl through the known makers mark lists shows only one "PR" in a simple rectangular shape which could have been in use in the period 1770-80. Patrick Robertson registered such a mark at Edinburgh AO in 1751 (Jackson's page 549) and appears to have been active to around 1790.
The only obvious alternative would be Philip Roker III who was also active in the period. There is no record at London AO of a simple rectangular mark registered by him but, of course, this might be because the register was lost.
Perhaps this helps narrow the choice a little for where the tongs where made?
Regards,
Mike
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A trawl through the known makers mark lists shows only one "PR" in a simple rectangular shape which could have been in use in the period 1770-80. Patrick Robertson registered such a mark at Edinburgh AO in 1751 (Jackson's page 549) and appears to have been active to around 1790.
The only obvious alternative would be Philip Roker III who was also active in the period. There is no record at London AO of a simple rectangular mark registered by him but, of course, this might be because the register was lost.
Perhaps this helps narrow the choice a little for where the tongs where made?
Regards,
Mike
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