Need help from the experts

Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:46 am

HI-

I got a napkin ring , laquered, with a winter troika scene.

St. Petersburg, 1908 - 17(1908 - 1926 Ha, Ha..) Artist: HK , Maker: I. E. Morozov??
Question: Who is HK? I. E. Morozow, who worked in laque, had an artist in his workshop, who signed HK but he mostly painted lanscapes. Is this a product of HK or did Morozow not stamp his name because there was no place? Many "famous" firms do without their name if the known quality was reached.

A small Vodka pitcher from I. E. Morozov in laque, winter troika scene, made by a supplier V. I. Kangin (Kangin did not work in laque, only silver). The troica scene is not signed or marked in any way. What have I to think?

Any help welcome!
Regards
Postnikov
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:50 pm

Good evening HaaHaa Postnikov, :-)

I dare to provide you with some names in St: P that used the initials HK in the their marks. What I unfortunately don’t know is what the marks exactly look like i.e. the font, cartouche etc.. Some of the mentioned names were traders and not necessarily silver smiths only. Whether they worked for Morozov or not, is unknown (to me). Anyway, all on the list worked during the mentioned (haahaa-) era in StP (about).

Nahim Yevnukhovich Kagan
Nikolai Kirllovich Kadylov (Kadylov & Mekov)
Nikolai Fyodorovich Kemper
Nikolai Dimitrievich Kostyrev
Nikolai Pavlovich Kochkin
Nikolai Alexandrovich Kulikov

Hopefully somebody on the list match the initials.
Might be problems with the transliteration of the names, sorry for that.

About the item you call vodka pitcher. To me it looks like a tea glass holder but the glass is missing/broken, or? Kindly tell us the diameter and height but without the handle. My guess is, that the diameter is close to 70mm, the height about the same or some millimeters more.
Thank you in advance.
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Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:43 pm

Good evening Qrt.S -

thank you for your long list (that I had expected) of names of the cyrill. version , but all are not in enamel working. Maybe it is someone with Latin initials - but it must be someone who is well known - in the literatur he/she is mentioned - and many pieces Morozov/HK are known. I want this name!!

The vodka pitcher (the Russian call it stomka) is not a tea glass holder (postakannik) with broken glass, not a child tea glass holder with broken glass or a miniaturized travelling salesmanÂ´s showobject -- it is a vodka pitcher! Dimensions: H 50 mm, D 52 mm
I unfortunately found only this one, but originally the complete set consists of a large kovsch, a salver and 6 or 12 of this pichers, all in laquer technique with different motives. If you know where I can find the rest....

Regards
Postnikov
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:34 pm

OK, case clear its not a for tea but for vodka. Absolutely too small to be a tea glass holder (one cannot see the size on photo). However, mind my saying, but to my understanding its called STOPKA (Ð¡Ð¢ÐžÐŸÐšÐ) not STOMKA in Russian. Well preferably Ð§ÐÐ ÐšÐ (CHARKA).

Very sorry that my list was of no help to you. Actually its strange, since my source is very reliable indeed. The only problem with it is, that it only includes initials/names that are known. Unknown initials are unregistered for some peculiar reason. That could be the case, because now it looks like your HK, I assumed Cyrillic letters, might be an even today unknown person.

By the way, I just checked HK as Latin letters too, but unfortunately I couldn't find a single case even.

What a pity that you have only one piece. Sorry, but I have no idea where to find more. But if I run into such, I'll let you know. Its a promise!

I have a similar problem. I have a nice jugend silver creamer but the sugar bowl is missing or not missing, its in the Kremlin museum in Moscow. I have only a picture of it. Any contacts? I'd like to buy the bowl. :-0 :-O
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Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:23 pm

Hi -
I think the problem is solved - probably it is Robert Kochin, badly strucked - No. 5 on your list - the only one with this significant "Baloon - K" in the books.

Stopka is correct but when I quickly read, the kyr. P looks like the lat. M for me sometimes. Sorry.

Regards

Postnikov
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:11 am

Excellent that you managed to identify him, but why Robert Kochin !? Number 5 is also spelled ÐšÐžÐ§ÐšÐ˜Ð, transliterationproblem maybe?

Unfortunately I don't have much more information on him only that he worked in StP around 1910. He also marked his work ÐÐŸÐš in addition to ÐÐš.

Kindly asking, what books are you referring to? I'm always interesting in finding possibly new books.
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Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:29 am

Hi -

here is the reason why:

What is the best book (title) on Russian marks and where to get it ? Russian language no problem.

Regards

Postnikov
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:49 am

Ahaa, but he is not number 5 on my list. This is a totally other person, Robert or Roman Kochun, born 1807. Postnikova # 1397. He was one of the owners of the famous Business House Nichols and Plinke (Anglinsky shop) with about 140 workers in the years 1842-1879 with a turn over of about 300.000 Roubles. The address was Ligovka 38 and Nevsky pr. 16 Vasilchikov's house.

Unfortunately I don't follow you now. How could it be him? Moreover, the cartouche is a rectangle and not round, and there are other discrepancies too???

In addition you have a mismatch of more than 30 years between the maker's death and the assay mark. 1879 versus >1908 !?

About books. The best book of Russian silver is not written yet. Somehow I understood that you have Postnikova-Loseva-Uljanova. That is a very good book regardless of its minor inaccuracies and faulties. You don't need neither Rothemund nor Watts. Both are copies of Postnikova. But, there is A.I Ivanov's book; Assaying and Hallmarking in Russia 1700-1946, and his two volumes of Gold and silversmiths in Russia 1600-1926. There are abut 5000 masters registered in those books. Unfortunately only masters in Moscow and Petersburg are listed no others. Also all unkown masters are missing. Good books but cost more than a fortune and are very difficult to get. I got mine from Moscow and Tallinn after a really heavy tracing.

A book that is a continuation to Postnikova is N. G. Troepolskaja's book (in Russian only) Catalogue of punches and matters of valuable metals (free translation). It contains mainly the Soviet period 1908->2000

How does that sound?
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Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:44 am

Hi -
I know it is dubious in spite that the 3 known punches are very conceiving but the timegap....
That is always disturbing me that a piece of very good quality and fairly legible marks can not be assigned to a certain person.
Why is it overstruck? Is it one of the "new-old-stock" pieces? But the assaymark is under the laque..
I do not know!
Thank you for your help-
Regards
Postnikov
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