strange importmark

[Postnikov]

Hi -

I have a cigarette case with tinder cord, match/striker compartment and a second lid which reveal the contemporary photograph of a man in Russian uniform. This goes perfect with the military decoration (2 shoulder boards of different regiments and a monogram E SCH)) of the
case.





Assayer: HK Korvitzki 1886
Maker: CK Kasakov Semen Vladeletz, master in the wellknown firm of Nemirov-Kolodkin.



So far everything is clear.
On the interwined monogramm letters is an import mark with the townmark of St. Petersburg, 84 silvercontent and cyr .PT = priwosnije towari = imported goods





I know that many workshops bought the monogramm letters in different styles in gold and silver from suppliers (lately I bought a complete ABC, neatly fixed on cardboard with the correct marks on the revers). But from which country imported Russia monogramm letters in cyrillic and why? The Baltic States it could not be - they were under Russian rule and "homeland".

Maybe someone can enlighten me or have some interesting facts.

Regards
Postnikov
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[Qrt.S]

Hello,

I have stumbled into this question before and unfortunately I have no answer. I have never seen lists or documents clearing where from Russia imported such things in general. From all over I suppose. Nevertheless, this special import mark was enacted in an instruction from 1882 and used to ~1896-99.

Before this import-meaning of this mark became clear, people had a strong believe, that this ПТ was an unknown silversmith. Then somebody figured out that it stood for "Privoznih Tovarov= Imported Good" as Postnikov already stated.

Please note the following:
This maybe not the right place but, anyway, keep in mind that if a piece carries Russian control marks (assaying marks) but no maker's mark, the item is in such case imported to Russia without any doubts whatsoever. This fact is based on the rule that the maker must bring his item to the assayer with his maker's mark alreday struck and also unfinished. It was strictly forbidden for the assayer to struck his mark on an item without a maker's mark.

But was amaze me is, that you state that the maker would be Semyon Kazakov and your picture clearly shows G.K and not C.K as C Kasakov marked?? In addition 1886 is a rather early year for Kasakov and he used non-serif fonts. This G.K looks to me as a serif-font or very similar to it. Unfortunately I have not a better suggestion for GK.
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[Postnikov]

Dear Qrt.S -

very, very slowly I start to hate you!! :-) Next time I am in Helsinki I will sell you the cigarette case as original "Serifes GK = Gustav Klingert" though this mark do not exist.
Please be so kind, fetch your reading glasses and take a look at the marks and the Russian text - as an ex-undercover komsomolz no problem for you as I presume - otherwise I can translate.

Here you go:



:-(

Regards
Postnikov
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[Qrt.S]

Heheeh, I saw that , yes, but I like to tease you and nature has given me a suspicious mind i.e. nothing can be taken for granted especially regarding Russian silver. You know that I suppose. I have learned my lessons in this matter.... too may fakes and forgeries circulating.

The assayer HK is a strange one. There is nothing on him in other books than i Postnikova #2118, and that's practically "nothing". Not even his first name... However, there are HKs; Nikolai Kostiansky but he was i Moscow later i.e. 1905-1917, Nikolai Kulakow, head workmaster i StP 1895-1898 and Nikolai Korbitsky but in Kostroma 1912-1916 so....? Strange indeed.

Besides there is so little activity on the Russian sites that a debate in these fast darkening evenings is always welcome. :-) Sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Actually the Russian language is a kind of a problem for me. I cannot handle it as good as I like to. The text doesn't say much. He had a silver shop in 1889 and what you told us earlier. That's about all there is in my other books too.
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[Postnikov]

Hi Qrt.S -

to sweeten your dark and lonely winter evenings, here is a German (I suppose) lady´s cigarette case made by Louis Kuppenheim/Pforzheim, imported to Riga with the Russian import mark. I have several German cigarette cases in my collection which were imported to Russia and vice versa. The import mark shows silver content 84 (875/1000) but the case is 800/1000 silver - they had only this one punch!

The case, dated 18. II. 1901



The import mark



Detail



The German marks (too small I think)



From L to R: L(Louis) K(kuppenheim), Halfmoon/Crown, 800, 127 (Mod. number)

I have an other interesant case I will show you as next thread.

By the way, which programm do you have to write cyrillic?

Regards
Postnikov
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[Qrt.S]

Its a lovely case but doesn't it need some polishing? Silver must shine!
About the import mark. Interesting that the import mark shows another quality than the case is. But yes, you're right there was no other punch at that time. It came with the next generation as from 1908. There you have the "hammer punch" P#3908 as well as the new "cut kokshnik" import mark P#3907.

Yes, Germany was definitely one exporting country and UK too i believe, but as I said earöier, never seen any Russian import statistics.

FYI
I will answer your question about the Cyrillic program via a private message, this is not the place for that. Look for it today.
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[Postnikov]

Hi Qrt.S -

I know that silver must shine - exactly that was what I told the 2 butlers responsible for my silver chamber before I fired them! :-)

Regards
Postnikov
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