Kassel Silversmith

rscherzer · Post by **rscherzer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:16 am

I am new to German silver so....Can anyone identify this Kassel silversmith. The maker's name on both candlesticks is difficult to read, but I believe there are enough legible letters to determine the maker, if there is a listing of Kassel silversmiths. There is no numbering to be found either the sticks or the bobeches.

Is there any significance to the crown with cross above etched over the monogram? The underside of each bobeche carries the same monogram as on the base of the candlesticks. Also, when did the numbering of 800 begin in Germany?

Thank you for any assistance you can provide.

JAKJO · Post by **JAKJO** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:24 am

Hi and welcome to the forum,

It is indeed a very nice pair of candlesticks made in the late 18th or early 19th century by Kompff and probably W. Kompff.

I have not got the referencework by Reiner Neuhaus & Ekkehard Schmidberger Kasseler Silber, but I have previous noticed that there is a Friedrich Conrad Ludwig Kompff in Kassel (Mark F.K.) perhaps the son of W. K.

I can't see and read the letter of the town mark. The year letter will be important to date the candlesticks. Will you be able to provide us with photos of the town marks?

The crowned monogram seems to be royal.

The German law concerning the marking of gold and silver (crescent and crown and 800) was taken the 7th January 1886.

Hope this helps

Best regards/JAKJO

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:35 am

JAKJO wrote:
I can't see and read the letter of the town mark. The year letter will be important to date the candlesticks. Will you be able to provide us with photos of the town marks?

It looks like an A (about 1800)

JAKJO · Post by **JAKJO** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:45 am

The pair of candlesticks could have been commissioned by Wilhelm I, Elector of Hesse-Kassel (reigned 1785-1821). The maker is Heinrich Wilhelm Kompff and together with Johannes Ostheim and C. H. Kordell made an extensive Kurfursten-Service (or court-service) in 1806 and 1817, produced in an austere Empire style and engraved with the initials WK beneath a crown.

Heinrich Wilhelm Kompff, became master in 1783 and goldsmith to the court in 1801 and died in 1825. The town mark "A" is for the assay master J.L. Clement, from 1815.

Hope there is someone that could confirm this.

Best regards/JAKJO

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:35 am

Carl Heinrich KÃ¶rdel

I have a spoon from H W Kompff

http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Objekt/Kassel.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rscherzer · Post by **rscherzer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:21 am

Thank you all for your assistance. I cannnot get a clear image of the town mark, though the letter is an A when magnified. I am also adding the monogram. My photo skills are not all that great.

rscherzer · Post by **rscherzer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:48 am

I assume it is a coinsidence that the monogram of WK with crown is the same as the maker's mark(?) of WK on the base of the bobeche?

JAKJO · Post by **JAKJO** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:39 am

Hi again and thanks a lot, the new pictures are great!

The maker's mark WK and the royal cipher WK is a coincidence. I am not quite sure of the meaning of the letter K in the royal, perhaps KurfÃ¼rst.

A link to the commissioner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I, ... r_of_Hesse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best regards/JAKJO

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:12 pm

the townmark have an other letter (B).

rscherzer · Post by **rscherzer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:01 pm

The letter looks like a P rather than a B. Here is a photo from the other bobeche.

Would there be a reason for the difference in the year letters as it appears the bobeches were made for the candlesticks?

JAKJO · Post by **JAKJO** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:29 am

Thank you both for being observant,

The town mark with the letter "P" was in use between 1804-?. I hope someone will give us a correct date and tell us the name of the assay master.

If my presumption can be validated, that this pair of candlesticks belongs to the grand and extensive KurfÃ¼rsten-Service (or court-service) commissioned in 1806 and 1817, it also tells us that these type of candlesticks was commissioned already in 1806 (town mark P on the bobeches). There have been several identical candlesticks in the court service and when polished it was not important, whether the bobeche was made in 1806 or 1817.

One of our esteemed contributors made it clear that the German law concerning Standards of Gold and Silver was passed on the 16. July 1884 and took effect on 1. January 1888 Gesetz Ã¼ber den Feingehalt der Gold- und Silberwaren, Vom 16. Juli 1884, Reichsgesetzbl. S. 120 ,
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bunde ... gesamt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An amendment concerning the marks of gold and silver items was passed on the 7. January 1886 and this was the first time the now well-known crown and crescent were presented. It is also the year we use in the section German Hallmarks after 1886.
Bekanntmachung betreffend die Bestimmung der Form des Stempelzeichens zur Angabe des Feingehalts auf goldenen und silbernen GerÃ¤ten, Vom 7. Januar 1886, Reichsgesetzbl. S. 1, verk. am 10.1.1886
http://www.bundesrecht.juris.de/bundesr ... gesamt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best regards/JAKJO

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:38 am

JAKJO wrote: If my presumption can be validated, that this pair of candlesticks belongs to the grand and extensive KurfÃ¼rsten-Service (or court-service) commissioned in 1806 and 1817, it also tells us that these type of candlesticks was commissioned already in 1806 (town mark P on the bobeches). There have been several identical candlesticks in the court service and when polished it was not important, whether the bobeche was made in 1806 or 1817.

>>Scheffler -die Goldschmiede Hessens Bd4- #678 <br> Heinrich Wilhelm Kompff <br> Master 1783, 1801 Hofgoldschmied, since 1815 Gildemeister (Buchstabe B), 1825 gestorben<<

1815 Kompff was the wardenmaster with Letter B