Strange marks on four identical candlesticks.
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needtoknow
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:32 pm
- Location: Denver Colorado
Strange marks on four identical candlesticks.
I have four matching candlesticks. They are not silver plated. Two are marked "PFP NS No1" and two are marked with a small "j" a Large "M" and a small "c" Any help would be much appreciated. All 4 are identical.
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silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
Not silver plated candlesticks, »P.F.P. NS Nº1« or »JM&a
Hello
To me it seems now again, that your statement »They are not silver plated« is for sure 100 % correct!
Let’s start before resumed to a little journey in history — because that could help to understand some aspects and find so maybe the well skilled American maker for this kind of products range.
This kind of candlestick was made in the past centuries from silver alloy, tin, bronze and brass. For representative purposes most preferred material was silver — the alternative, century ago, was a high quality tin alloy, polished (the so called »Silver of the Poor«). That’s the reason why today somebody’s think, they have gained a silver item.
Thomas Bolsover invented about 1743 a production method — called »Sheffield Plate« - for to could make item in silver by less cost spending for to could buy it. That is the silver fusing method on copper as the basic material. The edges of the products made always problems — you could observe on not well done objects the basic copper material. Solution there fore was some additional work activity for to cover these areas by hammering, soldering and others; e.g. to be hold in mind this problem when design was made = »form follows fabrication«.
Then, a patent was taken out by the Elkington on the 25th of May 1843 for the Electro Plating Process, in the name of Moses Poole. Shortly after be sold licences for a huge amount of money, e.g. to Christofle, for France.
But always unprotected silver tarnish as well, being solid, alloy or plated.
Problem in the Electro Plating Process remain always the wear and tear areas of the items — special double, triple and quadrupled galvanic production processes were invented and patented with huge claims in publicity and juridical wars between competitors in the market of electro plated products.
Some of them used, as a contra of tarnish, the nickel plating process — after World War I the chromium plating came also in use; then alternative, chosen by producers who haven’t gained application licences for use of stainless steel material.
But to could compete in the sales market under ever changing circumstances — and hold down basic costs -, some producer used several compounds of brass and copper-zinc-nickel-alloy. But it must be plated, if item were used for food - zinc which comes in contact with some food ingredients change to be poison.
Nickel is a very stain resistent material, but hard to work with. Because need of high melting temperature, hard and strong enough die’s for production of items. In Germany two producer claim to be the inventor of use able copper-zinc-nickel-alloy. Dr. Geitner, of Auerhammer, Saxony, a chemist and metallurgist; and the Berlin silversmith’s Henniger — which have buy in about 1843 from Werner Siemens (latter: Werner von Siemens) and his younger brother Wilhelm (latter: Sir William Siemens) a licence for galvanic plating. William has sale also in 1843 a composition formula for silver salt soluble to George Richard Elkington, to get already a smoother surface on electro plated products during the plating production process. Otherwise ever, the result in electro plating process was a surface like a »hyper micro “Stonehenge”«. Today solved in electro-chemical »Hard Silver« production methods.
By time and while, working hours shortened and income increased — never more only the »Upper ten« travelled e.g. on cruises, have a dinner out of home in a luxury restaurant and stay in a first class hotel. Also during war time, people searched there fore to get a possibility out of »grey in grey«, or called »Kleine Fluchten« - getting hope in mind, that’s come again a better time of future.
All of this be came a challenge for inventive investors. The economic segment of services rose up in the past. But many more people like to be the client and not the servant.
A wedding party and following honeymoon, even today we like to celebrate in adequate luxury — also if it be come more and more usual to change every seven year the partner. Even during male menopause = they change their partner most times for a younger one. Elder partner, economically settled, like to be hold his almost attractive younger partner. A wedding party, and following honeymoon be celebrated in adequate luxury, come to be a basic must.
But where? On cruises? »Bermudas«? »Hilton«?
The secretary from a principal boss of a hotel chain’s purchasing department announces a visitor to him.
Just in time comes the boss of a commercial agency for hotel accessories — specialized in products for representative restaurant service sector, like flatware, serving cutlery, napkin rings, trays, flower bowls, centre pieces, candle sticks and many more.
Principal purchaser is afraid, have to buy again for some lasting million’s of dollars this year as every year before. Until yet he has buy all in glass or porcelain; well except the cutlery. And the 50 year before ever first buy candlestick in silver were lost by clients, employees? Some nights he couldn’t dream well — eve-of the-wedding-party’s, and not tinnitus.
Mr. Alloy offer instead of content from crazy dream’s, a very reliable solution: Never polish, dishwasher resistant, ever stainless … - oh the price!? Mr. Alloy explains: 5 centre pieces to buy in 5 year and 4 were in between gone by shatter. What is there fore the real price?
Furthermore, Mr. Alloy shows him then after their new »JM&C« product line »King of Chess«; very representative candlesticks. Director's result: »No, no! Not again tarnish on silver — in the whole chain, last year we’ve need 5,500 work hour contra tarnish on plated!«
»No, it isn’t plated« retort Mr. Alloy, and explain »What my company offer you is pure first quality nickel silver alloy, the ever best quality you could get on the market! Never shatters, never dull! The best economical solution you ever could buy. And look to our craftsmanship design! Its high gloss polish would last at least many years without any service is need. Look to our chased work, in combination with our high gloss workshop polishing; that makes our candlesticks and other products of our “King of Chess” products line similar to high end silverware«.
My résumé is:
The here shown candlestick aren’t plated; made from a First Quality Nickel Alloy »NS Nº1«
Producer: A — maybe North American - metal ware company or foundry with a high quality approach. Maybe »JM&C«?
Production method: Mould or die cast; fin’s removed and polished; then after chased; mounted.
Sale Market destination: Representative Restaurant and Hotel, where the elegancy of silverware is need.
Sales agency: Maybe »P.F.P.«?
Maker is until yet unknown by me — but I guess it is a recently active North American metal ware company. Sales agency or retailer is actually also unknown by me.
I’ve made here an attempt to explain possible circumstances around Metal hollowware and their basic material.
I’m — as ever - open for every contrary sought and constructive discussions.
Kind regards silverport
To me it seems now again, that your statement »They are not silver plated« is for sure 100 % correct!
Let’s start before resumed to a little journey in history — because that could help to understand some aspects and find so maybe the well skilled American maker for this kind of products range.
This kind of candlestick was made in the past centuries from silver alloy, tin, bronze and brass. For representative purposes most preferred material was silver — the alternative, century ago, was a high quality tin alloy, polished (the so called »Silver of the Poor«). That’s the reason why today somebody’s think, they have gained a silver item.
Thomas Bolsover invented about 1743 a production method — called »Sheffield Plate« - for to could make item in silver by less cost spending for to could buy it. That is the silver fusing method on copper as the basic material. The edges of the products made always problems — you could observe on not well done objects the basic copper material. Solution there fore was some additional work activity for to cover these areas by hammering, soldering and others; e.g. to be hold in mind this problem when design was made = »form follows fabrication«.
Then, a patent was taken out by the Elkington on the 25th of May 1843 for the Electro Plating Process, in the name of Moses Poole. Shortly after be sold licences for a huge amount of money, e.g. to Christofle, for France.
But always unprotected silver tarnish as well, being solid, alloy or plated.
Problem in the Electro Plating Process remain always the wear and tear areas of the items — special double, triple and quadrupled galvanic production processes were invented and patented with huge claims in publicity and juridical wars between competitors in the market of electro plated products.
Some of them used, as a contra of tarnish, the nickel plating process — after World War I the chromium plating came also in use; then alternative, chosen by producers who haven’t gained application licences for use of stainless steel material.
But to could compete in the sales market under ever changing circumstances — and hold down basic costs -, some producer used several compounds of brass and copper-zinc-nickel-alloy. But it must be plated, if item were used for food - zinc which comes in contact with some food ingredients change to be poison.
Nickel is a very stain resistent material, but hard to work with. Because need of high melting temperature, hard and strong enough die’s for production of items. In Germany two producer claim to be the inventor of use able copper-zinc-nickel-alloy. Dr. Geitner, of Auerhammer, Saxony, a chemist and metallurgist; and the Berlin silversmith’s Henniger — which have buy in about 1843 from Werner Siemens (latter: Werner von Siemens) and his younger brother Wilhelm (latter: Sir William Siemens) a licence for galvanic plating. William has sale also in 1843 a composition formula for silver salt soluble to George Richard Elkington, to get already a smoother surface on electro plated products during the plating production process. Otherwise ever, the result in electro plating process was a surface like a »hyper micro “Stonehenge”«. Today solved in electro-chemical »Hard Silver« production methods.
By time and while, working hours shortened and income increased — never more only the »Upper ten« travelled e.g. on cruises, have a dinner out of home in a luxury restaurant and stay in a first class hotel. Also during war time, people searched there fore to get a possibility out of »grey in grey«, or called »Kleine Fluchten« - getting hope in mind, that’s come again a better time of future.
All of this be came a challenge for inventive investors. The economic segment of services rose up in the past. But many more people like to be the client and not the servant.
A wedding party and following honeymoon, even today we like to celebrate in adequate luxury — also if it be come more and more usual to change every seven year the partner. Even during male menopause = they change their partner most times for a younger one. Elder partner, economically settled, like to be hold his almost attractive younger partner. A wedding party, and following honeymoon be celebrated in adequate luxury, come to be a basic must.
But where? On cruises? »Bermudas«? »Hilton«?
The secretary from a principal boss of a hotel chain’s purchasing department announces a visitor to him.
Just in time comes the boss of a commercial agency for hotel accessories — specialized in products for representative restaurant service sector, like flatware, serving cutlery, napkin rings, trays, flower bowls, centre pieces, candle sticks and many more.
Principal purchaser is afraid, have to buy again for some lasting million’s of dollars this year as every year before. Until yet he has buy all in glass or porcelain; well except the cutlery. And the 50 year before ever first buy candlestick in silver were lost by clients, employees? Some nights he couldn’t dream well — eve-of the-wedding-party’s, and not tinnitus.
Mr. Alloy offer instead of content from crazy dream’s, a very reliable solution: Never polish, dishwasher resistant, ever stainless … - oh the price!? Mr. Alloy explains: 5 centre pieces to buy in 5 year and 4 were in between gone by shatter. What is there fore the real price?
Furthermore, Mr. Alloy shows him then after their new »JM&C« product line »King of Chess«; very representative candlesticks. Director's result: »No, no! Not again tarnish on silver — in the whole chain, last year we’ve need 5,500 work hour contra tarnish on plated!«
»No, it isn’t plated« retort Mr. Alloy, and explain »What my company offer you is pure first quality nickel silver alloy, the ever best quality you could get on the market! Never shatters, never dull! The best economical solution you ever could buy. And look to our craftsmanship design! Its high gloss polish would last at least many years without any service is need. Look to our chased work, in combination with our high gloss workshop polishing; that makes our candlesticks and other products of our “King of Chess” products line similar to high end silverware«.
My résumé is:
The here shown candlestick aren’t plated; made from a First Quality Nickel Alloy »NS Nº1«
Producer: A — maybe North American - metal ware company or foundry with a high quality approach. Maybe »JM&C«?
Production method: Mould or die cast; fin’s removed and polished; then after chased; mounted.
Sale Market destination: Representative Restaurant and Hotel, where the elegancy of silverware is need.
Sales agency: Maybe »P.F.P.«?
Maker is until yet unknown by me — but I guess it is a recently active North American metal ware company. Sales agency or retailer is actually also unknown by me.
I’ve made here an attempt to explain possible circumstances around Metal hollowware and their basic material.
I’m — as ever - open for every contrary sought and constructive discussions.
Kind regards silverport
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needtoknow
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:32 pm
- Location: Denver Colorado
Re: Not silver plated candlesticks, »P.F.P. NS Nº1« or »
Hello Silverport
What an unbelievably comprehensive answer to my question! Than you most sincerely.
What an unbelievably comprehensive answer to my question! Than you most sincerely.