A very old fork that is possibly from LÃ¼beck, Germany

historydetective · Post by **historydetective** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:14 pm

Does anyone recognize the marks on this ancient fork:

blakstone · Post by **blakstone** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:22 pm

It is indeed from LÃ¼beck. The double-headed eagle in this shield outline is the city mark used by guild warden Carl Dietrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), who served in the post 1833-1865; it looks like the second version of his mark used 1857-1865.

The maker's mark, unfortunately, is not recorded, and could belong to any one of three LÃ¼beck silversmiths:

Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Buchwald (1816-1898); Master 1847
Johann Peter Christian BystrÃ¶m (1824-1859); Master 1854
Christoph Friedrich Wilhelm Boy (1839-1888); Master 1864

Ref: BjÃ¶rn R. & Marina Kommer, LÃ¼becker Silber 1781-1871 (LÃ¼beck: Schmidt & RÃ¶mhild, 1978), pp. 49 & 54

historydetective · Post by **historydetective** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:30 pm

Wow, Blakstone! I can't thank you enough. Your posts are always of great interest to me, and it's such an honor to have you looking at this piece.

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 pm

Hallo blakstone there are
some other LÃ¼beck makers

PH/A , oval townmark
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... 27_PHA.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Grube
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... _Grube.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
HD
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... 832_HD.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind regards Theo

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:08 pm

blakstone wrote: Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Buchwald (1816-1898); Master 1847
Johann Peter Christian BystrÃ¶m (1824-1859); Master 1854
Christoph Friedrich Wilhelm Boy (1839-1888); Master 1864

for me it looks like - CS not CB

blakstone · Post by **blakstone** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:04 am

Theoderich, I think you’re right . . . sometimes a second pair of eyes really helps! Oddly enough, “CS in an oval” is the maker’s mark of the warden himself: Carl Dietrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871); Master 1844 [Kommer #101]

As for the other marks:

#1:
LÃ¼beck Arms: interim mark used 1827-1828 & 1831-1833 when the position of guild warden was temporarily vacant due to the sudden resignation of two successive wardens. [Kommer #ZV a]
PH/A: Peter Holt Ambders (1785-1854); Master 1822 [Kommer #2]

#2:
LÃ¼beck Arms: warden Carl Dietrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865, this mark 1857-1865 [Kommer #Schwartzkopf sen. II a]
Grube: Johann Hinrich Grube (1804-1874); Master 1834 [Kommer #34]

#3:
LÃ¼beck Arms: warden Carl Dietrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865, this mark 1857-1865 [Kommer #Schwartzkopf sen. II a]
HD: Jacob Heinrich Simon Damm (1806-1882); Master 1855 [Kommer #12]

Hope this makes up for the error!

JAKJO · Post by **JAKJO** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:16 am

Hi,

I agree with you it could well be "CS" and then

Carl Dietrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), born in 1808, wardein (assay master) in 1833-1866, master in the period 1844-1864, died in 1871
Ref: BjÃ¶rn R. & Marina Kommer, LÃ¼becker Silber 1781-1871 (LÃ¼beck: Schmidt & RÃ¶mhild, 1978), pp. 49 & 69
---------
Peter Holst Ambders (1785-1854), master 1822, died in 1854 (p. 53)
The year of the engraving, 1827, seems to match the assay mark used interimistically between two wardeins (Zwischenverwaltung II 1827-28 p. 47)

Johann Hinrich Grube (1804-1871), master in 1834, died in 1871 (p. 58)

Jacob Heinrich Simon Damm (1806-1882), master in 1855 (p. 55)

Best regards/JAKJO

Theoderich · Post by **Theoderich** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:13 pm

I thank you blakstone & JAKJO for your help
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... _Grube.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... mbders.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://silberpunze.piranho.de/Silber/Pu ... n_Damm.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards Theo