What is the mark "ZII" on the my item?
-
Elena Russ
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:18 pm
- Location: Russia
What is the mark "ZII" on the my item?
Hi! Let me know please, what is the mark "ZII" on the my item? Thank you.
-
silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
»ZII« = 835; Dutch assay office mark from 1 Sept. 1953 on
Hello Mrs. Elena
»ZII« mark, as shown here, is a Dutch assay office mark, in use from 1 September 1953 on, for already finished objects: »ZI« = 925 = Sterling alloy, »ZII« = 835, »Z« = 800.
But please remember, I don’t know all — I answer on almost questions by my brain; because my archive is somewhere.
Kind regards silverport
»ZII« mark, as shown here, is a Dutch assay office mark, in use from 1 September 1953 on, for already finished objects: »ZI« = 925 = Sterling alloy, »ZII« = 835, »Z« = 800.
But please remember, I don’t know all — I answer on almost questions by my brain; because my archive is somewhere.
Kind regards silverport
-
Elena Russ
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:18 pm
- Location: Russia
Re: »ZII« = 835; Dutch assay office mark from 1 Sept. 1953 o
Hi, dear silverport!silverport wrote:Hello Mrs. Elena
»ZII« mark, as shown here, is a Dutch assay office mark, in use from 1 September 1953 on, for already finished objects: »ZI« = 925 = Sterling alloy, »ZII« = 835, »Z« = 800.
But please remember, I don’t know all — I answer on almost questions by my brain; because my archive is somewhere.
Kind regards silverport
Thank you very much for your answer. But I found the information, that this mark is for imported articles. Is that so?
-
silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: What is the mark "ZII" on the my item?
Yes, it seems to be that the »Z«-marks are an indication of Dutch »Import« marks.
Hello Mrs. Elena
I hope that some one of our Dutch contributors get knowledge of your question, and could confirm my interpretation of the (in like a lying barrel-cartouche) »Z« marques.
The problem I’ve, my only reliable source is: »Nederlandse Goud- en Zilvermerken« door Elias Voet jr. — bewerkt door Ir. P. W. Voet. Achtste druk. ‘s Gravenhage, 1975: Martinus Nijhoff. ISBN 90 247 1662 4.
In this kind of “bible” for Dutch fineness marks, and marks of warden offices, isn’t specially mentioned, that these »Z«-marks (»Z« = first letter of the Dutch word for Silver = »Zilver«) are »Import« marks.
On page 49 the chapter is named: »GEHALTEMERKEN SINDS 1-9-1953« (Translation: Fineness marks from 1 September 1953 on.)
There, on p. 49, is shown as nr. 12 the following »Z« mark (in a cartouche, like as a lying barrel):
Nr. 12 »Z800« “Voorwerpen, met een zilvergehalte van 800 duizendsten. 120)” (Translation: Objects, with a silver fineness of 800-1,000. [Footnote] 120)
And on page 77 this Footnote 120 is explained as: » Doordat de nieuwe wet alleen maar kent in zilver: 1ste en 2de gehalte, en alle voorwerpen met een lager gehalte, niet als van zilver worden beschouwd, gaf dat direct moeilijkheden voor de handel. Veel buitenlandse zilver (special Duits) had vaak een gehalte van 800 duizendsten en was door de wetswijziging geen zilver meer. Vandaar dat heel spoedig toch een teken werd ingevoerd voor zilver van een gehalte van 800 duizendsten. « (Translation: Because the new law mention as to be silver only: First and Second finenesss; and all objects with a lower fineness aren’t respected to be made from silver; that directly gave problems to the commerce. A lot of foreign silver (especially the German one) was often made from silver of 800-1,000 fineness only; and as a result of the new law, these were "seen" as not to be made from silver any more. For that reason, very quick then after was created [see p. 49, nr. 12 = »Z800«], and sounded by law, a new mark for silver of 800-1,000 fineness.)
On page 50 the chapter is named: »GEHALTEMERKEN SINDS 1-9-1953 VOOR VOORWERPEN IN VOLTOOIDE STAAT AANGEBODEN« (Translation: Fineness marks from 1 September 1953 on, on offers of already finished objects.)
There on p. 50 are shown, as nr. 5, 6 and 7, the following »Z« marques (in like a lying barrel-cartouche) marks:
Nr. 5 »ZI« “Zilver 925 duizendsten.”
Nr. 6 »ZII« “Zilver 835 duizendsten.”
Nr. 7 »Z« “Zilver 800 duizendsten.”
Because my edition is from 1975, so it could be, that then after, by law, the Roman ciphers were changed to Arabic ciphers, like e.g. »ZI« to »Z925« = “Zilver 925 duizendsten.”; »ZII« to »Z835« = “Zilver 835 duizendsten.” ?
Resume: For reason that the text and the footnote 120 are separated explanations of Ir. P. W. Voet, on behalf of the other Dutch marks for silver, which are in function from 1 September 1953 on (p. 49, nr. 8-12 [nr. 8 = I; nr. 9 = II]), I guess that these lying barrel-cartouche »Z« marks are really Import marks only, in the then official Dutch marking system.
TARDY (9th edition, p. 327) makes there a »Janus«-faced explanation: Before his explanation he shows the 3 different lying barrel-cartouche »Z« marks with Roman ciphers as »Importation« marks. Then after, his remarks are as follow: » Depuis le 1er sept. 1953 tous les poinçons d’impôt sont abolish. Aussi les ouvrages d’un titre inférieur à .833 sont exclus de la garantie de l’Etat et on ne les marque plus pour constater le paiement de la taxe.
La limite de .250 [sic] au moins est par conséquent aussi abolie.« (Translation: After 1 September 1953 all Import marks are cancelled [In reality he must write here: » ... tous les poinçons anciennes d’impôt sont abolish. « Translation: all former Import marks are cancelled]. Also all [silver] items with a lower fineness then 833-1,000 are excluded of States warranty; they could be marked with the tax mark, if there fore tax would be paid.
Also abolished is the limit of 750-1,000 of silver fineness.)
Yes, juridical text is like a »labyrinth« - especially if you’ve to translate it from one in other, differing languages.
I’ve done my best as I could do. There fore I request you and all, to forgive me, if my interpretations aren’t correct as they maybe could be done.
Critics, or confirmations, are very welcome!
Kind regards silverport
Hello Mrs. Elena
I hope that some one of our Dutch contributors get knowledge of your question, and could confirm my interpretation of the (in like a lying barrel-cartouche) »Z« marques.
The problem I’ve, my only reliable source is: »Nederlandse Goud- en Zilvermerken« door Elias Voet jr. — bewerkt door Ir. P. W. Voet. Achtste druk. ‘s Gravenhage, 1975: Martinus Nijhoff. ISBN 90 247 1662 4.
In this kind of “bible” for Dutch fineness marks, and marks of warden offices, isn’t specially mentioned, that these »Z«-marks (»Z« = first letter of the Dutch word for Silver = »Zilver«) are »Import« marks.
On page 49 the chapter is named: »GEHALTEMERKEN SINDS 1-9-1953« (Translation: Fineness marks from 1 September 1953 on.)
There, on p. 49, is shown as nr. 12 the following »Z« mark (in a cartouche, like as a lying barrel):
Nr. 12 »Z800« “Voorwerpen, met een zilvergehalte van 800 duizendsten. 120)” (Translation: Objects, with a silver fineness of 800-1,000. [Footnote] 120)
And on page 77 this Footnote 120 is explained as: » Doordat de nieuwe wet alleen maar kent in zilver: 1ste en 2de gehalte, en alle voorwerpen met een lager gehalte, niet als van zilver worden beschouwd, gaf dat direct moeilijkheden voor de handel. Veel buitenlandse zilver (special Duits) had vaak een gehalte van 800 duizendsten en was door de wetswijziging geen zilver meer. Vandaar dat heel spoedig toch een teken werd ingevoerd voor zilver van een gehalte van 800 duizendsten. « (Translation: Because the new law mention as to be silver only: First and Second finenesss; and all objects with a lower fineness aren’t respected to be made from silver; that directly gave problems to the commerce. A lot of foreign silver (especially the German one) was often made from silver of 800-1,000 fineness only; and as a result of the new law, these were "seen" as not to be made from silver any more. For that reason, very quick then after was created [see p. 49, nr. 12 = »Z800«], and sounded by law, a new mark for silver of 800-1,000 fineness.)
On page 50 the chapter is named: »GEHALTEMERKEN SINDS 1-9-1953 VOOR VOORWERPEN IN VOLTOOIDE STAAT AANGEBODEN« (Translation: Fineness marks from 1 September 1953 on, on offers of already finished objects.)
There on p. 50 are shown, as nr. 5, 6 and 7, the following »Z« marques (in like a lying barrel-cartouche) marks:
Nr. 5 »ZI« “Zilver 925 duizendsten.”
Nr. 6 »ZII« “Zilver 835 duizendsten.”
Nr. 7 »Z« “Zilver 800 duizendsten.”
Because my edition is from 1975, so it could be, that then after, by law, the Roman ciphers were changed to Arabic ciphers, like e.g. »ZI« to »Z925« = “Zilver 925 duizendsten.”; »ZII« to »Z835« = “Zilver 835 duizendsten.” ?
Resume: For reason that the text and the footnote 120 are separated explanations of Ir. P. W. Voet, on behalf of the other Dutch marks for silver, which are in function from 1 September 1953 on (p. 49, nr. 8-12 [nr. 8 = I; nr. 9 = II]), I guess that these lying barrel-cartouche »Z« marks are really Import marks only, in the then official Dutch marking system.
TARDY (9th edition, p. 327) makes there a »Janus«-faced explanation: Before his explanation he shows the 3 different lying barrel-cartouche »Z« marks with Roman ciphers as »Importation« marks. Then after, his remarks are as follow: » Depuis le 1er sept. 1953 tous les poinçons d’impôt sont abolish. Aussi les ouvrages d’un titre inférieur à .833 sont exclus de la garantie de l’Etat et on ne les marque plus pour constater le paiement de la taxe.
La limite de .250 [sic] au moins est par conséquent aussi abolie.« (Translation: After 1 September 1953 all Import marks are cancelled [In reality he must write here: » ... tous les poinçons anciennes d’impôt sont abolish. « Translation: all former Import marks are cancelled]. Also all [silver] items with a lower fineness then 833-1,000 are excluded of States warranty; they could be marked with the tax mark, if there fore tax would be paid.
Also abolished is the limit of 750-1,000 of silver fineness.)
Yes, juridical text is like a »labyrinth« - especially if you’ve to translate it from one in other, differing languages.
I’ve done my best as I could do. There fore I request you and all, to forgive me, if my interpretations aren’t correct as they maybe could be done.
Critics, or confirmations, are very welcome!
Kind regards silverport
Re: What is the mark "ZII" on the my item?
Hi All,
Used Domestic Items 1953, 1987, 2002
When the Netherlands revised their hallmarks in 1953, a problem arose of what to do with finished goods, both domestic and foreign, that were already circulating in the trade. The Netherlands Assay Office sometimes referred to these items as used objects. As complete assaying procedures could damage a finished item, a new set of three Z marks was initiated for use on silver items that had undergone a limited assay
Watchcase Marks 1953 to Date.
The jewelry market in watches and watchcases has been, from the 19th century to the present, a very active part of the domestic and foreign trade in the Netherlands. Watchcases and movements, whether locally manufactured or imported, were assembled in the Netherlands for the domestic retail market. Subsequently, watchcases had their own hallmarks that distinguish them from jewelry and object d’art. Only the Z 800 mark in the hexagonal frame-shape is a quarantee hallmark. After 1987, these marks were released for use on all 800 silver items.
The Z mark Z800 Watchcases Only 1953-1987 Gouda 1987 to Date. This series of silver marks uses a dot (.) and a Z, and a Roman numeral combination to indicate the fineness of used/imported objects/articles. (.. Z I) 925 fineness, (.. ZII ) 835 fineness and (.Z.) for 800 fineness. These marks have been in use from 1987 to date, and from 2002 in the Dutch city of Joure (hexagonal frame-shape).
So your item or photo frame is hallmarked in Gouda 1987 to Date.
Regards,
Oel
Used Domestic Items 1953, 1987, 2002
When the Netherlands revised their hallmarks in 1953, a problem arose of what to do with finished goods, both domestic and foreign, that were already circulating in the trade. The Netherlands Assay Office sometimes referred to these items as used objects. As complete assaying procedures could damage a finished item, a new set of three Z marks was initiated for use on silver items that had undergone a limited assay
Watchcase Marks 1953 to Date.
The jewelry market in watches and watchcases has been, from the 19th century to the present, a very active part of the domestic and foreign trade in the Netherlands. Watchcases and movements, whether locally manufactured or imported, were assembled in the Netherlands for the domestic retail market. Subsequently, watchcases had their own hallmarks that distinguish them from jewelry and object d’art. Only the Z 800 mark in the hexagonal frame-shape is a quarantee hallmark. After 1987, these marks were released for use on all 800 silver items.
The Z mark Z800 Watchcases Only 1953-1987 Gouda 1987 to Date. This series of silver marks uses a dot (.) and a Z, and a Roman numeral combination to indicate the fineness of used/imported objects/articles. (.. Z I) 925 fineness, (.. ZII ) 835 fineness and (.Z.) for 800 fineness. These marks have been in use from 1987 to date, and from 2002 in the Dutch city of Joure (hexagonal frame-shape).
So your item or photo frame is hallmarked in Gouda 1987 to Date.
Regards,
Oel