Austria Hungaria 1837 - 15 lod silver - 15 lod what do you say 937,5/1000. Guilded and in good condition. But purpose - what was it made for? Does anyone know maker? City is D - Lvov
Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
I have been visiting Krakow looking for Krakow silver. I found some but it was much to expensive. I saw it as a souvenier - sellers saw it as business but most of all history. Therefor I got no Krakow but found this piece.
Austria Hungaria 1837 - 15 lod silver - 15 lod what do you say 937,5/1000. Guilded and in good condition. But purpose - what was it made for? Does anyone know maker? City is D - Lvov
Austria Hungaria 1837 - 15 lod silver - 15 lod what do you say 937,5/1000. Guilded and in good condition. But purpose - what was it made for? Does anyone know maker? City is D - Lvov
Re: Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
Hi Hose,
How big is it? With such small holes, I wondered if it was a tea strainer.
Regards Trev.
How big is it? With such small holes, I wondered if it was a tea strainer.
Regards Trev.
Re: Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
the guilded bowl is 5,6cm lenth in all is 21 cm
kompot said seller,
kompot said seller,
-
silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
Maybe a cream skim ladle? — I ”see” 13 loth and 1857.
Hello »Hose_dk«
In my childhood I saw this kind of sifter be used to skim the cream from milk — there for it was necessary that the sifter’s holes were very fine, to let pass only the milk of skimmed consistence.
But as you know, many items are much more universal as they primary were destined for.
The Assay Office indication letter »D« for that period seems to be correct for Lemberg (Ukrainian: Львів, Lwiw, [lʲβ̞iu̯], Polish: Lwów, Russian: Львов, Lwow).
I don’t “see” a »15« loth indication and the year »1837« — but instead of these I "see" »13« loth and »1857«.
»12« loth were usual in Austria-Hungary only in short periods before the XIX century and around 1806-1807 — reason for the latter, the Napoleonic wars.
Almost usual was »13« loth, especially in the capital Vienna — I found by a quick research only one town, Neusohl, with »14« loth in 1835.
13 October 1366 in Vienna permitted only »15« loth fineness = 937.5-1,000
Second half of XVII century »13« loth fineness permitted = 812.5-1,000
13 March 1666 in Vienna permitted 18 carat Gold, and »14« loth silver fineness = 875-1,000
From 1675 on yearly changing Assay marks
7 March 1708 in Vienna permitted »13« loth »Augsburger« and »14« loth »Viennaise«
23 December 1737 in Vienna permitted »13« loth, signed with the so called »Radlpunze« with »W« for Vienna, and indications of fineness and year.
The so called »Wiener Probe« is changed from »14« loth to »15« loth »Viennaise«
1744 first known differentiation between Silver and Gold marks
4 June 1785 in Vienna permitted only a short time »12 Lot 16 Gran« = 805.555-1,000
1791-1799 the »13« loth Assay mark of the Mint has behind the ciphers a dot = 13.
21 June 1806 its forbidden to use coins for alloys — »12« loth period reason: the Napoleonic wars
1 September 1806 indication letters for all Assay Offices in Austria-Hungary
1813 changes in the Assay marks design
1814 again changes in the Assay marks design — this form remains in value until 1866
17 April 1846 in Vienna only permitted »13« loth or »15« loth to be used
1 January 1867 new Assay marks
»1 Lot« was »18 Gran«
1 old Austrian »Lot« was 17.5 gram; and a new metric »Lot« was 10 gram.
Source: Waltraud Neuwirth, »Wiener Gold- und Silberschmiede und ihre Punzen 1867-1922« vol. I, p. 33-40. ISBN 3-900282-00-5
Sorry »Hose_dk« that it seems, that »Nobody« else in the former area of Austria-Hungary, except Mrs. Waltraud Neuwirth has had the drive, to make sounded research and publish the results. So actually you would come to a dead end of research.
Many hundreds of Professors of Art, or History, and many thousands of students in Art or History live there, teach there — but it seems, that are all blocked in their brain. Not to count the thousands of Art dealers too, which have only the drive to tell believe able but untruth stories.
And never should be forgotten all the thousand of members of the Assay Offices themselves too.
Kind regards silverport
Hello »Hose_dk«
In my childhood I saw this kind of sifter be used to skim the cream from milk — there for it was necessary that the sifter’s holes were very fine, to let pass only the milk of skimmed consistence.
But as you know, many items are much more universal as they primary were destined for.
The Assay Office indication letter »D« for that period seems to be correct for Lemberg (Ukrainian: Львів, Lwiw, [lʲβ̞iu̯], Polish: Lwów, Russian: Львов, Lwow).
I don’t “see” a »15« loth indication and the year »1837« — but instead of these I "see" »13« loth and »1857«.
»12« loth were usual in Austria-Hungary only in short periods before the XIX century and around 1806-1807 — reason for the latter, the Napoleonic wars.
Almost usual was »13« loth, especially in the capital Vienna — I found by a quick research only one town, Neusohl, with »14« loth in 1835.
13 October 1366 in Vienna permitted only »15« loth fineness = 937.5-1,000
Second half of XVII century »13« loth fineness permitted = 812.5-1,000
13 March 1666 in Vienna permitted 18 carat Gold, and »14« loth silver fineness = 875-1,000
From 1675 on yearly changing Assay marks
7 March 1708 in Vienna permitted »13« loth »Augsburger« and »14« loth »Viennaise«
23 December 1737 in Vienna permitted »13« loth, signed with the so called »Radlpunze« with »W« for Vienna, and indications of fineness and year.
The so called »Wiener Probe« is changed from »14« loth to »15« loth »Viennaise«
1744 first known differentiation between Silver and Gold marks
4 June 1785 in Vienna permitted only a short time »12 Lot 16 Gran« = 805.555-1,000
1791-1799 the »13« loth Assay mark of the Mint has behind the ciphers a dot = 13.
21 June 1806 its forbidden to use coins for alloys — »12« loth period reason: the Napoleonic wars
1 September 1806 indication letters for all Assay Offices in Austria-Hungary
1813 changes in the Assay marks design
1814 again changes in the Assay marks design — this form remains in value until 1866
17 April 1846 in Vienna only permitted »13« loth or »15« loth to be used
1 January 1867 new Assay marks
»1 Lot« was »18 Gran«
1 old Austrian »Lot« was 17.5 gram; and a new metric »Lot« was 10 gram.
Source: Waltraud Neuwirth, »Wiener Gold- und Silberschmiede und ihre Punzen 1867-1922« vol. I, p. 33-40. ISBN 3-900282-00-5
Sorry »Hose_dk« that it seems, that »Nobody« else in the former area of Austria-Hungary, except Mrs. Waltraud Neuwirth has had the drive, to make sounded research and publish the results. So actually you would come to a dead end of research.
Many hundreds of Professors of Art, or History, and many thousands of students in Art or History live there, teach there — but it seems, that are all blocked in their brain. Not to count the thousands of Art dealers too, which have only the drive to tell believe able but untruth stories.
And never should be forgotten all the thousand of members of the Assay Offices themselves too.
Kind regards silverport
-
ARGENTUM49
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:07 pm
Re: Austria Hungaria 1837 - yes but what is it?
``Silverport`` is right about city assay office D and also the year 1857, it is 13 not 15 lots.
Those ladles were used as sugar dispensers,shakers if the holes are big enough. I have several Vienna sugar shakers with ornate holes that can really let powdered sugar through (``Staubzucker`` in German). It is an alternative to sugar caster.It is too big to be tea strainer.
Those ladles were used as sugar dispensers,shakers if the holes are big enough. I have several Vienna sugar shakers with ornate holes that can really let powdered sugar through (``Staubzucker`` in German). It is an alternative to sugar caster.It is too big to be tea strainer.