Enamel Cloisonné Flask

[Revofi]

This is one of the first pieces I have to start a small collection, so my experience is a bit limited. I really like this piece but I'd like to know more about it (and probably whether it is faked).




The marks are stamped into the arm holding the cap.

From what I can tell (and read), it seems to have the assay mark of Lev Oleks (Л О) and dated 1893 - although I've seen some posts saying he wasnt the assayer that year in particular locations - however this would be an issue if there was a city mark for the places he definitely wasn't. There is the 84 zolotniki silver standard mark. I cannot tell what the top mark is. It could be either: State Emblem of the Russian Empire, Minsk's city mark or Warsaw's city mark or something completely different. I don't see a makers mark unless I've incorrectly associated one of the others. I cannot see anywhere else the mark could be though.




The quality of the workmanship seems to be pretty high but being the first piece, I haven't got much to compare to. I've seen some photos of "bad" pieces on the forums but haven't seen some real ones at high resolution.

I do have all the images in much higher resolution (size warning: they are 4+ megabytes each!):
http://cdn.revofi.com/photos/front.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.revofi.com/photos/back.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.revofi.com/photos/marks.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.revofi.com/photos/top.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.revofi.com/photos/bottom.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any input, corrections etc to what I've so far found would be appreciated.

[Dad]

Hi, Revofi .

It is modern work. It's false marks.
I am sorry.

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Yes, I am afraid Dad is absolutely right. The marks look in way like Russian marks but not good enough. Take my advise and learn the Imperial Russian marking system and its marks before you start to collect any Russian silver enameled or not. That will save you a lot of money. As a first lesson, learn that there are in general five marks on an Russian object. The assayer, the year, the town, the purity and the maker's mark. The court supplier mark is excluded being an additional sixth mark. The hallmark can be a so called compound mark but still carrying all mentioned elements. However, both kokoshnik marks are excluded. The maker's mark is always a separate mark. All detachable parts must carry a hallmark and the maker's mark. The next step is to know when a where the assayer worked. Then you have to identify the maker and check that the information matches with the assayer's information. As an example, did the assayer work at the same period and in the same place as the maker? The last thing or the first thing is is of course how did the hallmarks look like during a certain period. If any of these checkpoints fail, leave the object immediately irrespective of how desirable it might look like.

Based on what is told above, let's look at your marks.
First of all there is always a maker's mark on a Russian object and you don't have one.
Secondly the hallmark(s) does not look like it should.
Thirdly, there is no town mark. The double eagle mark is supposed to be a court supplier mark. But how could it when you don't have a maker??? And even if you had one, the mark is all wrong.
Fourthly the "84" mark does not look as it should.
Fifthly Lev Oleks assayed in Moscow, but you don't have a Moscow town mark. In addition not in 1893, as you also mentioned yourself.
Sixthly, even if an object is well done, it is no guarantee for authenticity.
Seventh, do not pay any attention to the seller's fabulous story, it is usually meant to distract you only. Investigate the marks through a magnifier (6-10x) and make your own judgment based on you own knowledge.
Eight, the arm is a separate and detachable part. There must be marks on in the bottom of the bottle and there are not!
An over 100 years old item does not look brand new!
If you feel that something is wrong, just leave it and pick something else to investigate.Eight

Sorry my good man this is how it goes.

Now the second lesson:
Start to memorize the Russian system and the Cyrillic alphabet.

Sorry one, more thing: Read all Russian threads here in 925. Only by doing that you will learn a lot.