unknown russian city mark?

[Qrt.S]

Silver marks are not an absolute science. It means that sometimes you have answers and sometimes you don't. When you have answers you can always make a new question; "is this answer "right" or not?
The sphinx ;-) has spoken, now to the questions:

1) German piece, German maker
As said before it was not at all uncommon that a (also dubious) Russian importer ordered from Germany unmarked objects and had them marked with Russian marks in Russia, all in order to make huge profits.
FYI: The German crown and crescent moon was implemented 1.1.1886 and meant for the German market not necessarily export. This carafe was maybe made before and/or made for export only, who knows? Exporting unmarked objects in silver was not illegal in Germany.

2) German -Latvia
The Russian mark punched on the carafe is the only official mark that can be on it. It contains all necessary information, fineness, import town (Riga was Russia at that time) and the import mark ПТ. It cannot carry a distributor/maker's mark but only this official assaying mark that it has. It was forbidden by law to mark anything else on imported silver objects. Kindly note what I mentioned earlier about dubious merchants in point 1. But no illegal or "missing" marks on this carafe from a Russian point of view. I also find it necessary to repeat that when a "Russian" object has an assaying mark but no maker's mark, it is an imported object. This concerns the time before and during the implementation and use of the import mark ПТ.

3) German Latvia-Riga
The 875M mark is interesting but I already presented a theory why it is there. Perhaps it was meant for the German authorities to show the non standard fineness and explain the missing moon and crown. Maybe a kind of a German "export" mark for non standard purity? Was that the reason I really don't know.
Nothing strange with the German engraving. Latvia is former Courland i.e. German territory in 1600 century and partly Poland and lots of Germans still lived in the Baltic area irrespective of the third split of Poland 1795 when it ceased to exist and was divided between Prussia, Astro-Hungarian and Russia and Courland/Latvia became Russian territory.

Relax Steffen, you have a genuine German made carafe.

What is stated above is only the sphinx's personal theory based on what he has "noticed" through the years when gaining experience...and reading books...

[Dad]

Hi, All.

To assert that it is Germany it is impossible. Proofs? I have placed a question: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 24&t=24296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Besides there is a subject with punches of Sweden and 835М:

[Qrt.S]

Unfortunately that does not help at all. You see the Swedish marks are import marks meaning that the object was imported to Sweden but wherefrom ...?

[Dad]

Unfortunately that does not help at all. You see the Swedish marks are import marks meaning that the object was imported to Sweden but wherefrom ...?

That is the Question (Shakespeare)))

[Qrt.S]

And here is the answer:

The German standards were/are 800, 835, 900 and 925.

[Dad]

And here is the answer:

The German standards were/are 800, 835, 900 and 925.

And many countries others: http://www.925-1000.com/a_Standards.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But + "M" ?

[Qrt.S]

You must have missed this post

In Germany exist old silver with M marks

[Dad]

You must have missed this post

In Germany exist old silver with M marks

That mean these words: "old silver" ?
After 1886, or before? And where it is specified?

[Qrt.S]

Don't know, German marks is outside my range of interest. They are a mess, ask Zolotnik

[Silbersammler]

Amazingly, how many information I have now about the carafe and their origin. Again thanks to all, who divide their knowledge here so generously.
Yes, Qrt.S, I relaxe :-)
BTW: I bought the carafe as well as 6 russian cigarette cases from a collection 2 years ago. One of the cases I presented here last summer and result of the discussion here: it was no fake.
Other russian items where I have doubts or questions I will present in this forum soon, it is a pleasure for me to learn and discuss with you.
Wish you all a nice day and kind regards from germany
Steffen

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

If you have questions about the German silver marking and want competent answers, please go to: German Silver on this forum and ask Theoderich and/or Ringo!
They are friendly and know a lot!!

Brainstorming not brainwashing!

Regards
Zolotnik