There are only 3 marks??

[MAWubbolts]

Hello,

I am new here, so I must to learn much about silver hallmarks.

Here I have a Dutch chandelier that I bought a few years ago. I know this chandelier is from year 1967 (the yearletter H). The Minerva-cup with the letter X is the office sign of Joure establishment Pforzheim. The silver content is 835/1000.

What I think it is weird; there is no maker's mark on this item. My question is; is that normal? I always thought the maker's mark should always be available on silver objects.

I hope one of you know why there is no maker's mark.

Have a nice day! Matt. Wubb.

For the photo's:

http://fotopocket.nl/view.php?friendly=candelier" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fotopocket.nl/view.php?friendly=candelier1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[oel]

Hi,

No not normal. Your chandelier carries a full set of hallmarks, assay office, fineness mark and date letter and should also carry a responsibility mark in line with the hallmarks, either of maker or importer. What happened?
Perhaps the assay office forgot to put the responsibility mark or the maker/importer forgot or perhaps the chandelier has been part of a larger set of chandeliers and this one has slipped through. Responsibility mark rubbed out? Who knows, shit happens. You could ask the ‘Waarborg Holland’ or ‘Waarborg Nederland’ to explain.

http://www.ewnederland.nl/keurtekens.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.waarborg.nl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Please let us know of the outcome.

Regards,

Oel
PS. Where can I find this information about X is the office sign of Joure establishment Pforzheim?

[MAWubbolts]

Oel; again thank you for your answer! I've again research this candelier, I saw the letter at the Minerva-cup isn't X, but M (Schoonhoven). I've found it at http://www.keurtekens.nl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

I thought it is so weird that there are only 3 marks. So I've cleaned the area in the head of this candelier. I discovered the 2 other marks.

http://fotopocket.nl/view.php?friendly=silvercandelier" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fotopocket.nl/view.php?friendly=silvercandelier1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you know who made this candelier? How do you know who made this candelier? Where can I look for the maker's mark?

I hope (one of) you know who made this candelier.

Have a nice day! Matt. Wubb.

[oel]

Hi,

DD for Dan Dresmé or Dan Zilplabedr, date 1958/v1998, registered in Amsterdam/Uithoorn/Amstelveen and Zandvoort. Welknown importer with also his own silversmiths. You can find this information in the books Netherlands ‘Responsibility Marks from 1797

Regards,

Oel

[oel]

Hallo,

Your chandelier could have been assembled.
Dan Dresmé or Dan Zilplabedr, date 1958/v1998, registered in Amsterdam/Uithoorn/Amstelveen and Zandvoort, most probably only made the top of the chandelier, the device you stick the candle in. The little candle holder has been assayed and carries the sword mark 835, or small standard mark.
The candle holder with the responsibility mark of Dan Dresmé was sold to a silver smith in the area of Schoonhoven. This silver smith produced the base and made it with the candle holder into a chandelier. Before 1953 the marks could be spread over the object to prevent fraud. The spreading of marks over an object proved not to be effective in the long run. As from 1953 the English marking system is followed; all marks close together.
Your chandelier carries a full set of marks, at the base with the regional assay office letter for Schoonhoven but it lacks the maker’s mark (responsibility mark) of the assembler and base maker of the chandelier.

Regards,

Oel