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Hello,
I recently bought some items from Christie's auction. Among them was this snuff-box or patch box, which seems to be in very good condition with nice workmanship. Christie's could not identify the maker's mark, Sch.P in Cyrillic. There is a very clear 1908 Kokoshnik mark for St Petersburg (also another Kokoshnik on the other side of the pot), but the maker's mark is less clear.
I hope you know more than Christie's Russian department! Thanks for any help,
BOB
I must say I'm a bit confused to put it nicely. Most of the enameled objects were made in Moscow. I don't wonder that Christies couldn't identify the maker. For the moment I cannot recall one single Russian forename starting with scha (Ш).... "On the other side of the pot is a hallmark", you say, but are they any marks on the lid? Enameled objects are risky business and I have a very VERY suspicious mind. Your move dear Frontfloater.
as Qrt.S already stated, most of the enamel fabrication was in and around Moscow - only a handfull of artists worked in St. Petersburg - they are all known by name! An artist ШП is not known or ever existed in St. Petersburg. This kind of "objects" are in the original form a powder box with a mirror in the lid or pill boxes/bonbonieres - but they look a little different from your piece, particularly the thumb piece. It is one of the common fakes on sale everywhere.
To learn more about modern fakes read the many articles in this forum and learn how to distinguish authentic Imperial Russian silver/enamel from contemporary lookalikes!
Best way is to learn before you buy!
To Qrt.S - yes, the other Kokoshnik mark which I mentioned is in the centre of the lid.
To Zolotnik - with due respect to your opinion, I do not believe that a company with Christie's reputation would sell a fake. Also, it is not logical for a faker to add a maker's mark which does not exist! If a faker wants to fool buyers and sell his products, surely he will add a known maker's mark, not an imaginary one?
I am absolutely sure that you have requested a written confirmation of Christie´s, which says explicit that this object is authentic, before you bid on it. you know: "Buy the seller"!
So you have no problem now....
If you can not bear the answer, do not ask
By the way: fakers do not only add maker´s marks which do not exist or are wrong - they also make objects which have no historical model or 0% silver content. There is much to learn...
Well...I tried to put it softly dear Frontfloater but Zolotnik said it straight, your object is spurious. Enameled works are the most common Russian counterfeits, the market is flooding with them and they are made in a rather good quality too. If you or anybody Christies included cannot identify an enameled Russian object, just leave it! This is the best suggestion I can give you. The second best is to read these Russian threads. However, if you still doubt both Zolotnik's and my opinion, you can start with searching for a Russian forename starting with Ш. After that try to find the maker, I'm sorry I' don't think you will find him...Christies didn't either, think of that too.
By the way, fakers do not usually bother to research carefully enough what is what and how does it look like. Moreover, the earlier Russian hallmarking system revealed also the assayer's name. That helped a lot the identification. This kokoshnik mark doesn't show the assayer, which isn't good. Therefore using this kokoshnik on a faked object minimize the risks for the faker. However, the master registers after the turn of the century are rather good, most of the masters are known. The situation before about 1870 is different, a lot of documentation was unfortunately destroyed and therefore many masters are unknown or you know the mark but not the name but you have the assayer's name and that might help you identifying the object.
Third best suggestions is: Do not swallow without thinking what the seller tells you, use your own eyes and knowledge when identifying the object. The seller's only task is to have it sold and gaining profit. Therefore a "true story" is more than often embedded in the object or a "authenticity proving document" is showed. It is only to distract you. I you don't know what you are buying, don't buy it. Sorry BOB!
Frontfloater,
There was one person working in St. Petersburg with ШП initials. I quote from Gold and Silversmiths in Russia (1600-1926) Volume II Alexander Nikolaevich Ivanov, page 39, entry #3234.
Pernu Scholom Boruch
Goldwork, mentioned in 1894: Bolshoi pr., 28. St. Petersburg.
Initials on the hallmark: ШП
This is not proof of authenticity, but can be used as a starting point for further research.
Good luck
It seems the OP has deleted the photos. Or I just can't see them for some reason.
Was it the box in this link? Link goes (hopefully) to Christie's auction results. (admin edit - see Posting Requirements )
I didn't realize links to past auction RESULTS were forbidden. I understand why links to current auctions are discouraged but didn't see the harm in posting a link to past results. I seem to recall that's been done here in the past when looking for rare marks.
Then again, opening especially a recent post and finding the photos gone is quite annoying. And I thought the other items in the same lot were also of interest to this discussion. And the OP disclosed the auction house and the fact the item came in a lot himself.
My apologies for breaking the rules anyway. Won't happen again. My visits here are few and far between.
Hi all,
Sorry to dig up an old thread but I thought I should make a contribution - I was fortunate enough to attend the viewing of this auction and so I was actually able to see the aforementioned objects in person and get a good look at them myself. Neither the 'Klingert' Cigarette case or the 'Saltykov' Napkin Ring looked very good to me, and as for the 'Maria Semyenova' Spoon - it looked good, but in my opinion the condition was too good for it to possibly be 100 years old - there was no sign of any ageing or wear to the enamelling yet the makers mark was partially rubbed...
Mariya Vasiliyevna Semenova, working from about 1890, made pieces of outstanding quality, especially in the painting of the cloisons. The style tends more to the traditional, less often Art nouveau. The magnificent cloisons of her flowers (on a matted gold ground) are shaded with violet tones. Other typical colours are white and green, with frequent frames of round turquoise pearls.Her extreme rare objects you find only in major private collections or museums - but mostly never in auction houses or online (!!) auctions! In the last 25 years I never have seen an object from her in "the wild"! So when somebody offers 6 spoons from Semenova it is just ridiculous and pure and knowingly fraud. Nearly the same you can say about authentic objects from Gustav Klingert...but the intenet is full of these "treasures" and the many fools who buy everything.
