David Andersen 830S pin, help

[Carol Lynn]

Any information on this pin would be appreciated. It is marked "David-Andersen" and 830S (but no scales). Also looks like the number "16" is hand etched on the back.
Has a "C" clasp. Measures 2" x 2" approximately. It doesn't exactly match the David Andersen marks I saw. Photos too big for message box so here are the links:

http://i42.tinypic.com/29mq5fl.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i39.tinypic.com/314f2tt.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you!

[Tosten]

The pin is David-Andersen. I rememer it well, but I am not sure the designer. It may be Konrad Mehus.
Regards Tosten

[Carol Lynn]

Tosten, thank you so much for the reply. Do you have an idea of the date? Would it be 1843-1901 time frame? Do you know of anyone who might have more information?
Thank you so much.

[NorskyGal]

Do you have an idea of the date? Would it be 1843-1901 time frame? Do you know of anyone who might have more information?.

Hi,
I have this brooch as well--it's so very pretty in person, isn't it?? Anyway, I checked this mark with my Norwegian silver marks book ("Stempler For Gull-og Sølvarbeider") and it indicates that this mark was used in 1948. I hope that answers your question...

[Carol Lynn]

NorskyGal--- Thank you so much! I'm surprised it's 1948 as I thought the "C" clasps were used much earlier than that. Also, I thought the 830 silver was used earlier. This brooch belonged to my great Aunt, who traveled in Europe in the 1950's, and I had no information on it. It's very unusual! Where did you get yours? Thank you again.

[NorskyGal]

NorskyGal--- Thank you so much! I'm surprised it's 1948 as I thought the "C" clasps were used much earlier than that. Also, I thought the 830 silver was used earlier. This brooch belonged to my great Aunt, who traveled in Europe in the 1950's, and I had no information on it. It's very unusual! Where did you get yours? Thank you again.

Hi Carol Lynn, Sorry..my story is pretty boring compared to yours: I got my brooch thru eBay. I love Norwegian solje--each piece is so unique and such a work of art! As far as the c-clasp goes, it's still used today in Norway so never let the fact that a Norwegian brooch has one fool you. But as far as the 830S mark goes, I was a bit surprised to see the pin was made in 1948 as I thought that mark was used earlier than that, too. Maybe someone will read this & jump in to explain that 830S mark. (Or maybe that's a subject for another post!) (I should maybe also say that when I first bought this brooch, I didn't know how old it was--I just loved how pretty it was. The first time I looked up to see when it was made was when I read your post.) --Kaye

[Carol Lynn]

Thank you Kaye -- for the information about the "C'" clasp. Does your piece have a hand engraved number on the back? I only saw the number on mine when I took a photo and loaded it on my computer. I have read that another number on a piece COULD be a product number or a limited edition number. Does yours have one? I'm still confused about 830S silver. Looking at the David-Andersen information on this site, it leads me to believe 830 was used earlier, then they switched to 925. I found information on another site that said they switched to 925 around 1927 but that 830 is still used. Yes, it would be great if someone could provide us with more information. Thanks again!

[NorskyGal]

Thank you Kaye -- for the information about the "C'" clasp. Does your piece have a hand engraved number on the back? I only saw the number on mine when I took a photo and loaded it on my computer. I have read that another number on a piece COULD be a product number or a limited edition number. Does yours have one? I'm still confused about 830S silver. Looking at the David-Andersen information on this site, it leads me to believe 830 was used earlier, then they switched to 925. I found information on another site that said they switched to 925 around 1927 but that 830 is still used. Yes, it would be great if someone could provide us with more information. Thanks again!

Hi Carol Lynn, I took out my ultra magnifier and it looks like there might be either a 9 or a 19 etched on the back. It's very hard to see, but how interesting!! If you find that this is a limited edition, will you plz let me know? And if you find anything out on the 830 silver, will you let me know that too? I'll do the same....It's been fun 'chatting' with you. I could talk about Norwegian jewelry all day long!

[Carol Lynn]

Yes, I will let you know if I find out anything new. I've taken my brooch to antique stores etc. but can't find anyone who knows enough about that kind of jewelry. How long ago did you get your piece? Something else...the bird on our brooch appears to be a partridge to me. I had been wondering if that had any significance so I research the partridge and read that it is most often used as a symbol of Satan. The partridge steals eggs from other bird's nests just as Satan tries to steal souls from God. Creepy, huh?? I've enjoyed trying to learn about this type of jewelry. I welcome any thoughts from you! I had wondered about corresponding directly to the David Andersen people (store) to see if they would be willing to provide information. What do you think of that idea?

[NorskyGal]

I think you should go for it in contacting the David-Andersen company. Great idea! The worst that could happen is that they ignore you, and I doubt they would. And I know what you mean about there being not enough people (or ANY people) that know anything about Norwegian solje. It's an extremely specific niche, isn't it? And about the partridge, I wonder if Norway has an official bird or anything & if so, what it is. Maybe that's the bird on the piece. I can't imagine they would put a partridge on the piece to represent Satan. That IS creepy! Do you mind me asking what part of the country you're from? I'm in Fargo, ND...right in the thick of Norwegian country. I'm originally from Bottineau, ND which is even 'thicker' with Norwegians & I'm of 100% Norwegian descent--so I love all things Norwegian! I've gone to tons of antique shops & shows in ND & MN and solje is still hard to find. I get most of mine from eBay. I got this piece about a year ago..

[Carol Lynn]

Kaye...how interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm in south central Kansas, almost in Oklahoma, in the middle of nowhere. Wichita is 75 miles from me. I think I was in ND when I was a kid but haven't been back since. I know some custom cutters who live in Walhalla which is straight north of you (we farm). Their last name is Bjornstead....that sounds Norwegian to me! I looked it up and Norway's official bird is the dipper. Maybe that is the bird on the brooch, who knows. The partridge story is more interesting, however! One question...you said the book you have said the mark on the brooch was for 1948. Was it just for that one year? Seems odd it would just be for one year. Have a good weekend.

[swedenorway]

Some records show David-Andersen to be a mark for the David Andersen (now David-Andersen) company used after 1925 to today, but others believe it was possibly used after 1941 when the company David Andersen (from 1876-) changed its name to David-Andersen. Maybe someone from Norway can help. Regarding the 830S, this mark was common for non-export silver items with 925S being common now for export as well as internal silver items. For Scandinavia, this number is usually either 925S, 930S, or 830 S which means 925, 930, or 830 parts of Silver per 1000 parts (or 100%). According to http://www.925-1000.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; “the old Norwegian standard of 830 purity silver is still used, but beginning around 1920, 925 purity began replacing it and is now the foremost standard in use.” Hope this helps.

[NorskyGal]

Hi Carol Lynn,
Regarding the year the mark was used, I'm not sure if it was used in 1948 only or if 1948 was the year they began using it. Unfortunately, the book is written in Norwegian and so I can't read the intro. But because I used to collect china & have used similar books on marks for china, I know how to use the book..
Bjornstead is definitely a Norwegian name---it was probably originally Bjornstad. (I had a set of great grandparents with the last name of Bjornseth!)

[NorskyGal]

Hi Carol Lynn, I found some info on the 830s mark on this site after doing some searching.
"Scandinavian countries used 830s silver like Denmark moved to using 925 silver in 1927 however even though a higher grade of silver was used by most jewellers in Scandinavia, they stuck to stamping there jewellery 830s as they did not have to pay a tariff to the assaying office for the change over to 925. So most Jewellery made by fine houses in Scandinavia will in fact be marked 830s but will have a standard silver of 925."
http://www.modernsilver.com/MYSTMARKS.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Carol Lynn]

Thank you NorskyGal and swedenorway! All information is appreciated. Still hope to get the date narrowed down for sure, one day. I think the "after 1941" makes sense since I know my great aunt traveled to Europe in the early 50's. Any further information on the "David-Andersen" mark from anyone would be appreciated.