Any help would be greatly appreciated. Pictures are attached.
Thank you.
Fred
Help - Silver Snuff Box
Help - Silver Snuff Box
I have what I believe is a Silver Snuff Box. I have not been able to identify its hallmarks.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Pictures are attached.
Thank you.
Fred
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Pictures are attached.
Thank you.
Fred
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi Fred welcome to the forum.
Austro —Hungary; fineness mark with silver import duty mark AI in rectangle with cut corners; if the letter in the mark =? B for assay office of Linz Austria, used from 1872 to 1902, and the last mark could be the city mark of Mainz Germany Rhineland - Palatinate; http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884_3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" o
Oel.
Austro —Hungary; fineness mark with silver import duty mark AI in rectangle with cut corners; if the letter in the mark =? B for assay office of Linz Austria, used from 1872 to 1902, and the last mark could be the city mark of Mainz Germany Rhineland - Palatinate; http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884_3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" o
Oel.
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi Oel,
Thanks for the speedy reply. Forgive me for not fully understanding your reply as I'm a newbie to this "hallmark" thing.
Yes, I agree that the "wheel with spokes" mark is most probably as you deduces - the city mark of Mainz Germany Rhineland.
As per what I read on this site: "In 1886 the use of individual city was abolished and replaced by the national mark (reichsmark) of a crescent moon & crown mark (Halbmond und Krone) representing the entire German state. These marks became compulsory by 1888. The crown & crescent moon are used in conjunction with a maker's mark and a decimal silver standard mark (i.e., .800 or .900).
So, I assume that the "00" mark represents the finess of the silver and would most probably have been either .800 or .900 had it not been partially rubbed off.
As for the "AI" mark, I cannot deduce the "symbol" adjacent to the "A." Could it possibly be a stylized Halbmond und Krone???
Fred
Thanks for the speedy reply. Forgive me for not fully understanding your reply as I'm a newbie to this "hallmark" thing.
Yes, I agree that the "wheel with spokes" mark is most probably as you deduces - the city mark of Mainz Germany Rhineland.
As per what I read on this site: "In 1886 the use of individual city was abolished and replaced by the national mark (reichsmark) of a crescent moon & crown mark (Halbmond und Krone) representing the entire German state. These marks became compulsory by 1888. The crown & crescent moon are used in conjunction with a maker's mark and a decimal silver standard mark (i.e., .800 or .900).
So, I assume that the "00" mark represents the finess of the silver and would most probably have been either .800 or .900 had it not been partially rubbed off.
As for the "AI" mark, I cannot deduce the "symbol" adjacent to the "A." Could it possibly be a stylized Halbmond und Krone???
Fred
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi Fred,
Snuff box made in Mainz Germany, before 1888 (the introduction of the crescent moon and crown) and imported into the Austro —Hungarian Empire (1867-1922). The import mark was struck on an item to show that an import duty or tax had been paid to the state and that the item was now legal for trade. The particularly Austro-Hungary import mark struck on your box has been introduced in 1872 and used till 1902. From 1872 to 1922 the import mark incorporated the addition of an assay office letter in the mark; to identify the various assay offices, a letter was used within the mark to denote the city in which an item was assayed and hallmarked. From 1867 to 1922, local branch assay offices used a letter or letter-number combination for identification. There were about 130 possible individual letter and letter-number combinations.
Oel.
From: World Hallmarks Volume I
Snuff box made in Mainz Germany, before 1888 (the introduction of the crescent moon and crown) and imported into the Austro —Hungarian Empire (1867-1922). The import mark was struck on an item to show that an import duty or tax had been paid to the state and that the item was now legal for trade. The particularly Austro-Hungary import mark struck on your box has been introduced in 1872 and used till 1902. From 1872 to 1922 the import mark incorporated the addition of an assay office letter in the mark; to identify the various assay offices, a letter was used within the mark to denote the city in which an item was assayed and hallmarked. From 1867 to 1922, local branch assay offices used a letter or letter-number combination for identification. There were about 130 possible individual letter and letter-number combinations.
Oel.
From: World Hallmarks Volume I
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Thanks again Oel.
This is my understanding. Please correct me if I have misunderstood you:
1) The snuff box was made in Mainz, Germany between 1872 and 1888 as indicated by the "wheel with spokes" sans the Halbmond und Krone.
2) It was imported into the Austro-Hungarian Empire as indicated by the "*AI" stamp.
3) There are 130 possible assay offices/cities for which the "*AI" stamp most probably indicates.
4) The "00" stamp indicates the fineness of the silver and was probably either ".800" or ".900"
I have enhanced the "AI" stamp picture with it's "symbol." The symbol looks like 6 dots forming a slanted "H." See attached picture. Does this in any way help with the identification?? What I'm really looking for is who made this item.
Fred
This is my understanding. Please correct me if I have misunderstood you:
1) The snuff box was made in Mainz, Germany between 1872 and 1888 as indicated by the "wheel with spokes" sans the Halbmond und Krone.
2) It was imported into the Austro-Hungarian Empire as indicated by the "*AI" stamp.
3) There are 130 possible assay offices/cities for which the "*AI" stamp most probably indicates.
4) The "00" stamp indicates the fineness of the silver and was probably either ".800" or ".900"
I have enhanced the "AI" stamp picture with it's "symbol." The symbol looks like 6 dots forming a slanted "H." See attached picture. Does this in any way help with the identification?? What I'm really looking for is who made this item.
Fred
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi Fred,
By the best of my knowledge your conclusions are correct If; assay office looks like H it could be for Bergen Austria. So far no maker's mark mark found/shown/rubbed out.
Best,
Oel
By the best of my knowledge your conclusions are correct If; assay office looks like H it could be for Bergen Austria. So far no maker's mark mark found/shown/rubbed out.
Best,
Oel
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Just for the records. The Austro-Hungarian Empire import mark shows a "stylized" AV from the German words Auslandische Waren i.e. goods from abroad. At the mentioned time there were 16 assay offices in Austro-Hungaria named from A to V of which the letter B was dedicated to Linz and H to Bergen in Austria. This marking was used from 1872 to 1902 as oel stated already. Other alternatives are excluded.
Nonetheless, a totally different question is where from is it imported? Oel suggested Mainz due to the wheel. Hmmmm...Mainz used the a similar wheel in the 18th century and earlier and maybe also in early 19th century but not longer. At that time the fineness was expressed in loths and the fineness 13 should be seen above the wheel.... Unfortunately the wheel mark is not a a good punch, so ? However, there is a ?00 mark visible that could be the fineness mark of e.g. 800 promille as also suggested. Fineness expressed in promille started in late 19th century. This means that we have some contradictory "facts" here. The German crescent moon and crown were implemented in 1.1. 1888 as also mentioned but there is no such mark...at least not shown. There is either no maker's mark seen. Therefore I have some minor doubts about Germany and Mainz.
It could be Kuldiga in Latvia but then we should have a Russian hallmark and fineness in zolotnik and again a maker's mark, but we haven't that either??? Of course there is also the possibility of insufficient marking and maybe it is Mainz after all?...or Kuldiga ...or-...? Who knows?
In addition, I have seen this wheel mark without the moon and crown or other marks before on a golden cigarette case and that case-case :-)) could not either been placed. Kuldiga was the best option. Some times a correct answer is difficult to find...
Thoughts in the autumn...
Nonetheless, a totally different question is where from is it imported? Oel suggested Mainz due to the wheel. Hmmmm...Mainz used the a similar wheel in the 18th century and earlier and maybe also in early 19th century but not longer. At that time the fineness was expressed in loths and the fineness 13 should be seen above the wheel.... Unfortunately the wheel mark is not a a good punch, so ? However, there is a ?00 mark visible that could be the fineness mark of e.g. 800 promille as also suggested. Fineness expressed in promille started in late 19th century. This means that we have some contradictory "facts" here. The German crescent moon and crown were implemented in 1.1. 1888 as also mentioned but there is no such mark...at least not shown. There is either no maker's mark seen. Therefore I have some minor doubts about Germany and Mainz.
It could be Kuldiga in Latvia but then we should have a Russian hallmark and fineness in zolotnik and again a maker's mark, but we haven't that either??? Of course there is also the possibility of insufficient marking and maybe it is Mainz after all?...or Kuldiga ...or-...? Who knows?
In addition, I have seen this wheel mark without the moon and crown or other marks before on a golden cigarette case and that case-case :-)) could not either been placed. Kuldiga was the best option. Some times a correct answer is difficult to find...
Thoughts in the autumn...
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi all, am I seeing things or are there fragments of letters between the "800" (or whatever it is) and the wheel ? Maybe another pic with the light falling from a different side might tell more. Best wishes, Bahner
(I would not exclude the possibility of a company using the Mainz wheel after 1888 im remembrance of the old city mark)
(I would not exclude the possibility of a company using the Mainz wheel after 1888 im remembrance of the old city mark)
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Thanks to both of you for your replies.
I have examined this item carefully with a 10X loope.
There are no other markings other than the 3 punch marks.
What you may be seeing are only scratches.
See the below picture with all 3 punches enhanced.
Fred
I have examined this item carefully with a 10X loope.
There are no other markings other than the 3 punch marks.
What you may be seeing are only scratches.
See the below picture with all 3 punches enhanced.
Fred
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Hi All,
Thanks Qrt.S, I made another note in World Hallmarks
Just to feed our autumn thoughts. In Germany in 1884 a law was enacted making .800 the minimum national standard. In 1886 the use of the individual city marks was abolished and replaced by the national mark; the crescent moon and crown. The marks became compulsory by 1888. The crescent moon and crown are used in conjunction with maker’s mark and decimal standard mark. Questions; could it be that in Germany during the transition period 1884-1888, the decimal mark has been used in combination with a city mark and maker’s mark? Russian without a maker’s mark and fineness in zolotnik and Russian secondary hallmarks , like Qrt.S stated, is very unlikely and why are the decimal and city mark so unclear? Hmm..are we perhaps looking at bloody pseudo marks?!
Oel.
Thanks Qrt.S, I made another note in World Hallmarks
Just to feed our autumn thoughts. In Germany in 1884 a law was enacted making .800 the minimum national standard. In 1886 the use of the individual city marks was abolished and replaced by the national mark; the crescent moon and crown. The marks became compulsory by 1888. The crescent moon and crown are used in conjunction with maker’s mark and decimal standard mark. Questions; could it be that in Germany during the transition period 1884-1888, the decimal mark has been used in combination with a city mark and maker’s mark? Russian without a maker’s mark and fineness in zolotnik and Russian secondary hallmarks , like Qrt.S stated, is very unlikely and why are the decimal and city mark so unclear? Hmm..are we perhaps looking at bloody pseudo marks?!
Oel.
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box
Interesting discussion. But, alas, no real conclusions. But I will have to live with it.
FYI - Just a little more info regarding this item:
Below is a full set of pictures.
As you can see the box is heavily embossed solid silver with a filigreed top.
Through the filigee, there is mother of pearl.
In the center is a small glass cover under which was a small ceramic disk with a beautiful watercolor scene.
Unfortunately, the watercolor got ruined so I replaced it with a wedding picture of me and my wife.
The entire inside of the box is "gold" colored. Since it has never discolored or tarnished, I assume it is gold flashing.
The box's dimensions are: 2.5" x 2" x .75" and weighs 2t oz 2 dwt as shown.
The rubber feet were my addition to protect our table.
Note that the bottom of the box "buldges" out in the middle. That is where the hallmarks are.
Since this was carried in a pocket or purse and frequently placed on a table, the hallmarks got the most wear.
Other than the 3 hallmarks shown, there are no other marking anywhere on or inside of this box.
Fred
P.S. - The ground in these pictures is white and, of course, the box is silver except for the inside which is gold.
FYI - Just a little more info regarding this item:
Below is a full set of pictures.
As you can see the box is heavily embossed solid silver with a filigreed top.
Through the filigee, there is mother of pearl.
In the center is a small glass cover under which was a small ceramic disk with a beautiful watercolor scene.
Unfortunately, the watercolor got ruined so I replaced it with a wedding picture of me and my wife.
The entire inside of the box is "gold" colored. Since it has never discolored or tarnished, I assume it is gold flashing.
The box's dimensions are: 2.5" x 2" x .75" and weighs 2t oz 2 dwt as shown.
The rubber feet were my addition to protect our table.
Note that the bottom of the box "buldges" out in the middle. That is where the hallmarks are.
Since this was carried in a pocket or purse and frequently placed on a table, the hallmarks got the most wear.
Other than the 3 hallmarks shown, there are no other marking anywhere on or inside of this box.
Fred
P.S. - The ground in these pictures is white and, of course, the box is silver except for the inside which is gold.
Re: Help - Silver Snuff Box - UPDATE
Gentlemen,
I have carefully re-examined the "AI" assay stamp. I must concur with Qrt.S that it is not an "AI" but rather it is a stylized "AV." My conclusion became obvious when I looked carefully at the serifs on both letters. Further, since the 6 dots more logically form an "H" rather than a "B," I have concluded that the assay office was most probably "HAV" - Bergen, Austria.
In summation:
1) This snuff box was made in Mainz, Germany between 1872 and 1888 as indicated by the "wheel with spokes" sans the Halbmond und Krone. Since there is no manufacturer's hallmark, the maker is unknown.
2) It was imported into the Austro-Hungarian Empire as indicated by the Bergen, Austria "HAV" assay office stamp.
3) The "?00" stamp indicates the fineness of the silver and was most probably "800" although it could have been "900"
Fred
I have carefully re-examined the "AI" assay stamp. I must concur with Qrt.S that it is not an "AI" but rather it is a stylized "AV." My conclusion became obvious when I looked carefully at the serifs on both letters. Further, since the 6 dots more logically form an "H" rather than a "B," I have concluded that the assay office was most probably "HAV" - Bergen, Austria.
In summation:
1) This snuff box was made in Mainz, Germany between 1872 and 1888 as indicated by the "wheel with spokes" sans the Halbmond und Krone. Since there is no manufacturer's hallmark, the maker is unknown.
2) It was imported into the Austro-Hungarian Empire as indicated by the Bergen, Austria "HAV" assay office stamp.
3) The "?00" stamp indicates the fineness of the silver and was most probably "800" although it could have been "900"
Fred