Holy Cross Day

[AG2012]

Moscow, AE? Dimension 13 cm across.
I suppose this is where bread was cut for Holy Cross Day ceremony (Кресту Твоему поклоняемся,Владыко should mean Lord,we worship your cross).
I am not very familiar with the ceremony but obvious knife marks of cutting bread are seen here. Have searched for the ceremony of bread offering and found out bread was cut on the plate made of wood (was it always wood?), and then brought and placed on the diskos which has a stand and asterix. If the bread was cut here it cannot be diskos - contradicts the ceremony and there is no stand. On the other hand, why cutting bread on silver?
Can AE, or what looks like AE, be deciphered? It looks like Егоров Александр Сергеев, but I am not sure.
Thank you.

[Qrt.S]

I'm afraid that it can hardly be Егоров because his working period was 1868-1897 and the kokoshnik hallmark was used later i.e. 1898(99)-1908. Unfortunately I don't know who this AE might be except that he worked in Moscow. There is a lot of unknown maker's marks in Russia.

[AG2012]

Thank you! Actually,I was thinking about the discrepancy in years but it seemed too close,one year or so - item already in stock :-).I always wondered how it was determined when masters worked; entering the guild and leaving it (there are documents in archives)but probably also based on items they made; the latter not being very accurate.May I ask about the ceremony? The bread is not supposed to be cut on diskos but in another vessel and then brought and placed on diskos.Besides, diskos should have a stand.I will ask the first priest I hopefully meet;the issue may be helpful because the asterix is often missing and and one cannot tell if this is the lower part of the diskos or an independent vessel meant only for cutting bread.In short,if there are traces of knife it should not be diskos.I am sure they know how to follow the ceremony - it is well established practice.Will let you know what I find out.Thanks again.

[Qrt.S]

Well I'm not particularly acquainted with religious ceremonies. To my understanding the wafer (bread) is not cut. It is baked as it is looking like a thin round small "medallion" and not cut from a "loaf" or similar. I have a religious fried (orthodox) who once told me that he was going to go and bake wafers on a sunny Sunday and he told me how it is baked, but....?

What you show looks to more like tray than a plate on which the wafers were served to the church people during the communion. One would not assume that one would cut something on a silver object like this or any silver object at all with, a steel knife. It would make very heavy scratches on silver. But as I mentioned; not my area.....sorry.

Your other question about the assayer's working period. Interesting question but as I understand it the assayer was appointed the place and period by the mint office or some other official institution. The guild had nothing to do with this. It was meant for masters not assayers. There is a slight difference between master and assayer I'm afraid. Unfortunately I'm not sure about this appointing system. Let's hope somebody else knows more about this.

[Qrt.S]

Ahhh, you meant masters' working period and not assayers', sorry...Masters' working period started from the year they became masters and ended with their death. As simple as that.

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
all the plates of this kind I have seen have the deep knife marks - not so shallow as on this plate - but were fakes. When I look at the unprecise engraving......
But it is always me who see that....Sorry

Regards
Zolotnik

[AG2012]

Both of you you are so kind;thank you.As for the purpose of the plate or whatever, it is used for communion, but it is not a part of diskos, which has the stand.The Greek church is within walking distance and the priest I met said Russian priests practiced to cut prosphora (bread)on the tray like this.(It really has a million of``lancet`` knife marks and some are really deep to the point I was upset with them being so deep.I think only years of cutting on it could make so uneven lines in all possible directions).He also said there was a wooden plate in his church for this purpose.He mentioned the Russian name for it ``запивка`` but I am not sure if that is the name for the tray itself or for the communion.It seems the ceremony differs in Orthodox churches.
As for the engraving,not the best we have seen from Russian masters,but not every master was excellent.
Thank you,have a nice Sunday evening,both of you.

[AG2012]

Lancet knife marks a bit enlarged.My humble opinion it would be easier to engrave the plate than make those lines - scratches,marks,cuts.Some are shallow,some are deep enough.

[kentavr]

This plate I suppose is more likely was used in Russian Orthodox Easter ceremony for presenting Easter cake - KULICH. Kulich is usually cut on a plate in the church and everybody has to share a piece of it.

[bernstein]

Modern fake one. maybe made in turkey.