Help identify gold casing manufacturer of Cartier lighter

[Aambro]

The lighter is boxed in a Cartier box and has a Cartier mechanism inside. Bottom plate is marked Cartier, PLARGENT G - for silver plated lighter.

I was told that in the 70's and 80's a lot of such lighters were re-made by Italian artisans with gold casings. I believe this is the case with my lighter.

By the bottom plate I have found out that the mechanism was made in Switzerland, but this is of little importance.

I also got information that Cartier has been sending blank silver plated casings/mechanisms officially to an external artisan in Valencia, but this is not the case with my lighter either, I believe.

The box has a sticker, which says:

La Casa dei Rasoi e dei Fumatori
Corso Vitt. Emanuele.37 / B
Milano - Tel. 700018

The photo shows the detailed part where 750 marking and another hallmark is shown.

I will be grateful for any information about the origin of this lighter's outer gold casing.

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

The goldsmith's identification mark is the right shape for that in use up until the early 1970's following the change in the law of 1969. See: http://www.925-1000.com/Fitalian_marks_01.html

However much I stare at the mark, and orientate it every way, I can't make out the content. It should be made up of two or three numbers, followed by two letters.



The company in Milan is still in business, and still at the same address, it may be worth dropping them a line.

Hopefully someone else here has some other ideas, but if not, please keep us updated with any information that you find.

Trev.

[Aambro]

Hi, thank you for your fast response.

The thing is, that this specific lighter's mechanism was invented in 1968 and was in mass production at least until 1990. See patent

So unless the manufacturer of the gold casing surrounding it hadn't used the old legal hallmark, there is only one year that that would be possible.

I was looking at french makers' hallmarks as well and they also match the shape, but they are usually even older.

The only contact with the seller is phone number, but I don't speak Italian :/

Here is another photo composite of same hallmark:

My ideas are:
G(something)D
15(something)small n or capital D (slightly rotated, part missing?)

[Aambro]

Oh and if it is not obvious, this is gold piece. If this is not appropriate forum for this, I apologize, but it has the largest database of hallmarks I've found on internet, so I tried my luck.

[dognose]

Hi Aambro,

Thanks for providing the extra images, they just well may contain the answer.



I hope I'm not seeing something just because I want to see something, but the above image appears to me to be that of 15 MI.

The Italian registration number 15 MI was assigned to Mario Buccellati, a particularly fine quality goldsmith, just the sort of goldsmith to have connections with someone like Cartier. See: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 176#p66176

They are very much still in business and an email to them will I'm sure confirm/deny a possible connection with Cartier.

So unless the manufacturer of the gold casing surrounding it hadn't used the old legal hallmark, there is only one year that that would be possible.

This is incorrect, and something I only learned about recently from another forum member. Although the law requiring the new format of the registration mark was enacted on the 30th January 1968, the 'regolamento di attuazione' (putting into effect regulation) was not issued until the 30th December 1970. The new style punches only made there way to the goldsmiths starting in 1971, and it is thought likely that it was as late as 1973 before the operation was complete.

Please keep us updated on any progress.

Trev.

[Aambro]

I have contacted Buccelatti and awaiting reply.

Here is another photo - best one, after taking +40 photos :)

[Aambro]

Buccellati confirmed that they've engraved some casings of such Cartier lighters, but they claim this one is not their work.

Searching further.

[Aambro]

I have managed to find and contact the shops owner, Mr. Colombi. The shop has been closed for years now.

He does not recall this specific lighter, but the artisan that was making these products for them was from Florence and is unfortunately deceased.

It is a step forward, but I am trying to get further info on this goldsmith to match it's number to the hallmark on gold casing.

[dognose]

Hi Aambro,

Thanks for keeping us updated with your progress.

Did Mr. Colombi supply you with the name of the Florence engraver?

Trev.

[Aambro]

Unfortunately not. I have asked him and hoping to get an answer.

[Aambro]

Unfortunately the shop owner does not remember the name of an artisan. At least I've narrowed it down to Florence.

[amena]

I would like to add an observation. The marks that you see in the gold casing are incorrect, according to Italian law in force at that date. In fact, it required that:
la cifra indicante i millesimi dovrà essere racchiusa in una losanga sugli oggetti d'oro
(the figure indicating the thousandths must be enclosed in a diamond on gold items )
Even the blunt lozenge does not correspond exactly to that required by law.

I would not run with the imagination, but it could be that this casing has been made by a craftsman not registered , which did not possess official marks.
I suggest this only tentatively.
Regards
Amena

[Aambro]

Thank you for your reply, amena.

I believe as well, that this is not official (by law) stamping and perhaps it is futile to read the numbers / letters in the maker's stamp.

I have seen quite few other 750 or 18k marks not enclosed in a diamond shape, however.

If you have any other suggestion/hint/remark, that could possibly help me trace this artisan, I'd appreciate it.