Hi Steve,
Good to hear that you are feeling better, it sounds like you had a rough time of it.
Thanks for updating the topic and explaining the situation. We look forward to hearing more from you.
Trev.
12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Hi Trev,
Thanks for that reply, I am feeling much better.
Thought I would clarify the test carried out to the buttons, it was an ICP-OES which Chris the Lab man said looks at all the elements within the sample, it is the impurities that are vitally important.
Link to Assay site- https://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/oth ... y-services
It is a much more accurate way than XRF, even though XRF is a good test the surface can become enriched over time giving a false reading.
A tiny 20mg sample is gently scraped from each item and analysed, had to do this to be thorough and get a clear concise answer to what they are. Very old silver pieces made into buttons, post again soon.
Thanks for that reply, I am feeling much better.
Thought I would clarify the test carried out to the buttons, it was an ICP-OES which Chris the Lab man said looks at all the elements within the sample, it is the impurities that are vitally important.
Link to Assay site- https://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/oth ... y-services
It is a much more accurate way than XRF, even though XRF is a good test the surface can become enriched over time giving a false reading.
A tiny 20mg sample is gently scraped from each item and analysed, had to do this to be thorough and get a clear concise answer to what they are. Very old silver pieces made into buttons, post again soon.
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Thank you for all your hard work in this thread, it is truly appreciated ::: If you get a chance, could you take a few close-up pics of the hallmarks? It might help to have some really sharp pics just in case someone in the future happens to stumble upon this hallmark :: I would love to know more about the silversmith who made these and the country of origin ::::: I love to think that these were made on a pirate ship from re-cycled Spanish Silver coins, however improbable that may be, they have such a great mystery about them :
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Hi Aguest,
Your posting made me smile a bit, I wrote a piece which is not great but it tells people all I have learnt, I had a little website made and put the story with pictures on there.
So if your interested here's the link
https://www.12americancolonialsilvercoinbuttons.co.uk/
Hope you enjoy the read
Your posting made me smile a bit, I wrote a piece which is not great but it tells people all I have learnt, I had a little website made and put the story with pictures on there.
So if your interested here's the link
https://www.12americancolonialsilvercoinbuttons.co.uk/
Hope you enjoy the read
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Thought I would put a update here about the engraved cypher on the buttons, had a few arguments regarding the date of this type of cypher. Here is a link to one of my books which is on Google, page 135 mentions the engraving and how important it was then in the Stuart period, the plate page just after page 136 shows the engraved initials in the exact same style as the buttons.
https://archive.org/details/englishjewe ... t/page/134
https://archive.org/details/englishjewe ... t/page/134
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
There was still some doubt as to the loop/shank date that the silversmith had applied to the buttons, so once again I had a ICP-OES test carried out on 3 loops, results are reassuring and what I was hoping for.
I have uploaded the data on my website, https://www.12americancolonialsilvercoinbuttons.co.uk/
The only thing I don't have is a video or photograph of the man making them, bit after his time on this earth
Hope you enjoy this new information
I have uploaded the data on my website, https://www.12americancolonialsilvercoinbuttons.co.uk/
The only thing I don't have is a video or photograph of the man making them, bit after his time on this earth
Hope you enjoy this new information
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Very much enjoyed this journey! Getting there is half the fun...so says Cunard.
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
I am pleased you have enjoyed the journey Traintime, I have for most of it, but having to clarify every point along the way to very sceptical people, which was very time consuming.
Every time an issue was raised about the buttons, I had to prove otherwise as best as possible, then when I had done that, another issue was raised. Now ignoring all the scientific data to date, ignoring all the information I have discovered over all this time, the latest response was the engraved initials look too good for American silversmiths.
Well you only have to look at some of the excellent work by earlier silversmiths in colonial America, the coats of arms with all that fantastic mantling, this is on tankards and teapots in the museums, you cannot dismiss that.
There are no silver or gold buttons I can find with engraved initials of an early period in any American colonial museum, so how can someone say that? Yet add all the colonial silversmiths together, they recorded making many thousands of them, where are they all?
If you look at my buttons from the top and then each row from left to right going down, you can see many differences between the buttons. Top button, look at the size of the last leg of the H, it is small, wide like a C. Button 2 look at the R as it curves down, it differs from top button. The button 2 also has a large last leg of the H compared with top button. Button 3 the top curve of the R has just a single line, no shadow like the others and so on. If you look closely there are many little differences, the larger buttons have shadows which should be opposite to the first RH, mirrored by 180 degrees. The engraver on a few got this wrong, plus other little details missing from one side to another, but I think they are still stunning.
I truly think that people should weigh up all the evidence I have put forth, does it stand up with all data timeline evidence, documented evidence, close proximity of silversmith who made 12 silver buttons to Richard Hubble of Stratfield, the Will with two sizes of silver buttons and so on.
I think Traintime, I may just go on that Cunard for a good long break, gone as far as I can here, so see how far I can go travelling
All the best, sorry about off loading a bit, Ha Ha.
Every time an issue was raised about the buttons, I had to prove otherwise as best as possible, then when I had done that, another issue was raised. Now ignoring all the scientific data to date, ignoring all the information I have discovered over all this time, the latest response was the engraved initials look too good for American silversmiths.
Well you only have to look at some of the excellent work by earlier silversmiths in colonial America, the coats of arms with all that fantastic mantling, this is on tankards and teapots in the museums, you cannot dismiss that.
There are no silver or gold buttons I can find with engraved initials of an early period in any American colonial museum, so how can someone say that? Yet add all the colonial silversmiths together, they recorded making many thousands of them, where are they all?
If you look at my buttons from the top and then each row from left to right going down, you can see many differences between the buttons. Top button, look at the size of the last leg of the H, it is small, wide like a C. Button 2 look at the R as it curves down, it differs from top button. The button 2 also has a large last leg of the H compared with top button. Button 3 the top curve of the R has just a single line, no shadow like the others and so on. If you look closely there are many little differences, the larger buttons have shadows which should be opposite to the first RH, mirrored by 180 degrees. The engraver on a few got this wrong, plus other little details missing from one side to another, but I think they are still stunning.
I truly think that people should weigh up all the evidence I have put forth, does it stand up with all data timeline evidence, documented evidence, close proximity of silversmith who made 12 silver buttons to Richard Hubble of Stratfield, the Will with two sizes of silver buttons and so on.
I think Traintime, I may just go on that Cunard for a good long break, gone as far as I can here, so see how far I can go travelling
All the best, sorry about off loading a bit, Ha Ha.
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
Latest bit of information which has really helped to tie up the scientific dates with the transactions of 12 silver buttons by Job Prince
Saturday 5th September 2019 update;- This is quite important and changes the percentage rate for definite, in the book, Early Connecticut Silver 1700-1840 page 249 mentions Job Prince dealt with Thomas Clarke the tailor of Milford from (1701) as per the tailors accounts book, this was noted by a Mr Harry.L.Dole of the Milford Historical Society. Therefore the transaction of 12 silver buttons happened after this date of 1701, confirming as best as anyone can that my buttons do marry up very well with all relevant data to date. I now believe 99.9% these are the said buttons, I think it is down to others to disprove now. What ever people wish to believe or who they wish to believe, I am totally satisfied with my research and findings to date, a link to this book on that fantastic site Google, without this site I would have really struggled.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N0F ... 's&f=false
All the best
Steve
Saturday 5th September 2019 update;- This is quite important and changes the percentage rate for definite, in the book, Early Connecticut Silver 1700-1840 page 249 mentions Job Prince dealt with Thomas Clarke the tailor of Milford from (1701) as per the tailors accounts book, this was noted by a Mr Harry.L.Dole of the Milford Historical Society. Therefore the transaction of 12 silver buttons happened after this date of 1701, confirming as best as anyone can that my buttons do marry up very well with all relevant data to date. I now believe 99.9% these are the said buttons, I think it is down to others to disprove now. What ever people wish to believe or who they wish to believe, I am totally satisfied with my research and findings to date, a link to this book on that fantastic site Google, without this site I would have really struggled.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N0F ... 's&f=false
All the best
Steve
Re: 12 American Colonial Silver Buttons
The date should have been 5th of October 2019 not September, sorry.