I recently found this silver bowl. But I can't find anything on the makers mark, the date and the country of make (I supouse it from wien). Can anyone hlep with the maker, country, an approx date?
Thanks In Advance,
micaela
Help with date, Makers Mark and Country of this case bowl
Help with date, Makers Mark and Country of this case bowl
Hi
I recently found this silver bowl. But I can't find anything on the makers mark, the date and the country of make (I supouse it from wien). Can anyone hlep with the maker, country, an approx date?
Thanks In Advance,
micaela
I recently found this silver bowl. But I can't find anything on the makers mark, the date and the country of make (I supouse it from wien). Can anyone hlep with the maker, country, an approx date?
Thanks In Advance,
micaela
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dragonflywink
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Might get a bit more information with a clearer shot of the marks, feel sure there will be some members along with more information, but you have an Austrian Wiener Werkstatte piece (so you were right about Wien). Sort of makes me think of some of Josef Hoffmann's designs from the 1920s, but the mark seems to indicate a different designer. The picture of the piece seems a bit distorted too - does it have a base?
~Cheryl
~Cheryl
Hi Micaela,
Thanks, much better image. The hoopoe head mark confirms that it is later than 1922 and I agree with Cheryl that it looks very much like a Hoffmann designed piece of that period.
The Wiener Werkstatte often marked their silver items with a designer's mark as well as the mark of the executing silversmith. Your mark does not match up with any of the known silversmiths working for the WW that I have been able to track down, so I am fairly sure that it is a designers mark. However, it does not match any published Hoffmann designer's mark I've ever seen.
What follows is pure conjecture, please take it as such. Amongst the WW's many designers is Julius Zimpel, better known for ceramics and glass, but he is known to have designed silverware. His known ceramic mark is a script Z in a circle, but he may have had another for work in different media. I believe your mark was meant to be oriented as below and that there is at least a small chance that it is Zimpel's.
Hopefully, someone with more knowledge in the area of early 20th cent. Viennese silver will join this discussion and be able to identify the mark definitively.
Regards, Tom
ps. It would be great if you could supply an image of the piece as it would sit on a table, difficult to get a fix on it in the image supplied.
Thanks, much better image. The hoopoe head mark confirms that it is later than 1922 and I agree with Cheryl that it looks very much like a Hoffmann designed piece of that period.
The Wiener Werkstatte often marked their silver items with a designer's mark as well as the mark of the executing silversmith. Your mark does not match up with any of the known silversmiths working for the WW that I have been able to track down, so I am fairly sure that it is a designers mark. However, it does not match any published Hoffmann designer's mark I've ever seen.
What follows is pure conjecture, please take it as such. Amongst the WW's many designers is Julius Zimpel, better known for ceramics and glass, but he is known to have designed silverware. His known ceramic mark is a script Z in a circle, but he may have had another for work in different media. I believe your mark was meant to be oriented as below and that there is at least a small chance that it is Zimpel's.
Hopefully, someone with more knowledge in the area of early 20th cent. Viennese silver will join this discussion and be able to identify the mark definitively.
Regards, Tom
ps. It would be great if you could supply an image of the piece as it would sit on a table, difficult to get a fix on it in the image supplied.
Hi Bahner,
As I cannot offer even a shred of supporting evidence, even more than a little skepticism is called for, yet I think the idea is worth a little exploration, if no more than to have it definitively dismissed.
There a very few silver producing entities that have received as much attention from decorative arts historians as has the Wiener Werkstatte. I would have thought that every mark ever used by them could easily be traced by viewing one of the many published lists of them. Here we have a mark that is unattributed, at least in the obvious sources. I'm excited by the prospect of having it identified and hope continued discussion of it will draw out a definitive identification.
In truth, I don't hold much hope for my bit of conjecture on Zimpel. Nonetheless, let me offer a some bits of information that led me to it.
I've been able to find alternative marks used in varying media by Hoffmann, Peche, Moser and Loffler, but no alternatives for Zimpel, this strikes me as odd.
Zimpel was quite a young man, only 28 years old when he died in 1925. He is known to have worked very closely with Professor Hoffmann and it is conceivable that the designs of the older and highly respected Hoffmann would have influenced young Zimpel's forms in silver.
The Wiener Werkstatte only survived seven years after Zimpel's death, there is no reason to assume they would have ceased production of his designs in those few years after his passing. Conversely, I think it likely they continued them in production - altruistically as homage, economically for profit.
None of this makes him probable, but I believe it leaves him as a possible candidate.
Regards, Tom
As I cannot offer even a shred of supporting evidence, even more than a little skepticism is called for, yet I think the idea is worth a little exploration, if no more than to have it definitively dismissed.
There a very few silver producing entities that have received as much attention from decorative arts historians as has the Wiener Werkstatte. I would have thought that every mark ever used by them could easily be traced by viewing one of the many published lists of them. Here we have a mark that is unattributed, at least in the obvious sources. I'm excited by the prospect of having it identified and hope continued discussion of it will draw out a definitive identification.
In truth, I don't hold much hope for my bit of conjecture on Zimpel. Nonetheless, let me offer a some bits of information that led me to it.
I've been able to find alternative marks used in varying media by Hoffmann, Peche, Moser and Loffler, but no alternatives for Zimpel, this strikes me as odd.
Zimpel was quite a young man, only 28 years old when he died in 1925. He is known to have worked very closely with Professor Hoffmann and it is conceivable that the designs of the older and highly respected Hoffmann would have influenced young Zimpel's forms in silver.
The Wiener Werkstatte only survived seven years after Zimpel's death, there is no reason to assume they would have ceased production of his designs in those few years after his passing. Conversely, I think it likely they continued them in production - altruistically as homage, economically for profit.
None of this makes him probable, but I believe it leaves him as a possible candidate.
Regards, Tom