Origin and maker of two bowls

[dinio]

Hi,

I recently bought two molded then repousse bowls representing mythological scenes, and I guess they are German in origin but I did not find any suitable correspondance of the marks, neither in my (too general) documentation nor in this website.

Here are the bowls:



Even if the marks are a bit worn, they seem to belong to the same town and maker, which may help for the hallmarks recognition. Each bowl has 3 marks: 13 for silver purity in a rounded rectangle, a lion issant facing right in a circle, and what seems to be a grape in an oval. Considering also the way they are struck, I am almost sure that the 13 mark and the lion mark have been punched by the same person, whereas the grape mark has been punched by another one. So the town mark should be the lion mark.

Here are the marks, the first line for the first bowl, the second one for the second bowl:





I can also add that the lion mark exhibits an outline with about 40 very tiny points: this can be noticed in the second line, above the head and the tail of the lion. May be it can help identifying this town mark.

Could somebody help as for the origin and maker of these bowls?

Dinio

[Theoderich]

In the german town Jena - grapes are the townmark. But I have never seen the townmark of Jena in any books.

So I am looking for some silvermarks with grapes. I have a list of Jenaer silver and goldworkers. But it is improbable, that your pieces are from Jena.
http://silberpunze.si.funpic.de/WFELS/G ... e_Jena.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have also an other townmark with grapes

but I cant identify the maker

[dinio]

Thanks Theoderich!
I looked at your list of Iena silversmiths (I needed a Google translation to understand most of it) but it does not ring a bell for me.

As I said in my initial post, I am pretty sure that the 13 mark and the lion mark have been punched with the same strength, whereas the grape is less struck, so possibily punched by the maker. And this is true on both bowls. So I think that the town mark would be the lion rampant (not issant as I wrote by mistake), and the grape is the maker mark.

The lion rampant was used in a lot of German towns (Bamberg, Braunschweig, Darmstadt, Düsseldorf, Elberfeld, Glatz, Hannover, Neustadt, Heidelberg, Lueneburg, Passau, Schlawe, Veiburg, Velburg, Weimar,...) and there are certainly other possibilities with Austria, Hungary or Poland.

The main distinctive aspect is the fact that the lion is facing right, which is rather unusual (Lueneburg has some examples, perhaps other cities?), but I could not find a correspondance. Could it be a new set of Hanau pseudo-marks?

For your marks I looked in my books but I did not find a hit.
Thanks again for your help.

Dinio

[Theoderich]

I have some lions but only one lion from left to right

I do not know - where it comes from.

That your marks are probably Pseudo-marks.