Dutch Spoon w King Crown ,woman and Coat of Arms

silversearcherz · Post by **silversearcherz** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:47 pm

This spoon has the dutch sword mark on bowl as shown on this site and appears to be the earliest mark as shown in Dutch Marks Photo (d) .The spoon measures 5.25 inches long and has a kings crown on top with either a woman or mermaid holding up a wreath.On the back of the bowl it has the Heraldry shield which has 2 birds opposite corners of each other and a man on horse on opposite corners of the shield.
I would like to know if this is just a typical family crest or some type of royalty crest and maybe an estimate of date when this could have been made.

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Admin photo edit - image too large - insert as link or thumbnail only - see Posting Requirements)

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Post by **admin** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:03 pm

Interesting, see the second from last item on the work examples page for Neresheimer of Hanau.
http://www.925-1000.com/hx_neresheimer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only 175 miles from Hanau to the Dutch border, but this leaves me wondering in which direction the trade flowed. Both Germany and the Netherlands had thriving manufactories for antique silver reproduction.

Regards, Tom
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silversearcherz · Post by **silversearcherz** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:47 am

Now that is interesting.From what I read on Hanau,they made alot of reproduction pieces that used marks that looked similar to english and other countries hallmarks.So the one I have could have been an original piece that Neresheimer reproduced with their so called fantasy marks or someone in the Netherlands copied the reproductionists.
It might depend on what was allowed to be marked on Dutch reproduction pieces ?
What type of markings did they use on repro pieces in the Netherlands?
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Post by **admin** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:26 am

Hi,
In the Netherlands they used pseudo-marks, combinations of pseudo-marks and genuine hallmarks, and sometimes, no marks at all. It is far more likely your piece is also a copy, identical as it is to the other it is likely to have been made in the same mold. Also, were it an early piece it would surely have early hallmarks, there is nothing that would exempt it from full guild marking.
Just for the record, I've seen other identical pieces marked 800 with no other marks. We also had a post here a few years ago about a set of these, the images are long gone, but you may find it of some interest.
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Tom
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silversearcherz · Post by **silversearcherz** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:48 am

Hmm. Actually the bowl on my spoon is wider and flattens out more on the end and the decoration above the woman's head on mine is more detailed and alot more open in center of wreath,compared to flattened out circles above womans head and closed hole on hanau piece.The crown on mine actually has cuts or knotches on each line and not smooth like the hanau one in your photo.There are definate line of knotches at top of wreath and bottom of the crown on mine which the hanau piece does not have.
Original pieces have detail,copies have flattened out and filled in decoration just as you find in repro cast iron pieces of art also.
But I guess this could have come from another reproduced piece or an artist could have added detail after or was Hanau just a make a form and pour as fast as they could factory with no added touchup later ?
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Post by **admin** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:06 am

The finish work on your piece may be superior to the other example, but the work is still far cruder that one would hope for in an antique piece. All of the examples seen are one piece cast construction, this is not how an early spoon would have been made.
Please have a look on the front, just above the X between stem and bowl, is that another mark?
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silversearcherz · Post by **silversearcherz** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:17 pm

Found the mark as you were saying might be above the X.
It is G7S and there is a piece on this forum with that mark that was identified as being made by C. Schoorl, Zaandijk, 1875-1914
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... hlight=g7s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is my photo of mark

I am still not sure of the exact year of manufacture.
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Post by **admin** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi,
Actually, it is the mark of Gerardus Schoorl of Zaandijk, a suburb of Amsterdam. Although his son Cornelis was probably in charge of the business by this time. Looks to be a thriving concern, he owned retail outlets in both Amsterdam and Den Haag (the hague). Below is an advertisement from a 1908 guidebook to hotels and restaurants in Amsterdam.
Regards, Tom

ps. there may well be other marks on the piece, they can be very well hidden on Dutch pieces.
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