Trying to determine history of this cup

jlewisso · Post by **jlewisso** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:17 pm

Hi,

first post to this forum. I received a cup from my grandfather that according to family history was brought into this country by my grandmothers parents when they immigrated from Russia.

From the marks on the bottom, so far I have been able to tell it was made in 1875 in Moscow.

Could the assayer be Mikhail Mikhailovich KarpinskiÃ¬ or Mathias Henrik Kilpeleinen? Possibly ivan yefimovich konstantinov?

As for the maker, I have no clue. any help would be appreciated. This is a fantastic site.

I have included a shot of the bottom of the cup and the sides (the floral scene repeats). All pictures were taken in macro mode to get the best possible closeup.

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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:50 pm

It's most likely a vodka cup or possibly a kiddush cup

But a bit confusing marks.... and it's the first time I see assayer Ivan Yefimovich Konstantinov's marks for the year 1875. The earliest year I'm aware of is 1876. Anyway, the maker is unfortunately an unknown master (at least to me).
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:56 pm

Forgot, the vodka cup is called Ð¡Ð¢ÐžÐŸÐšÐ i.e stopka.
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Postnikov · Post by **Postnikov** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:23 pm

Hi -

your stopka (for vodka) was made in the year 1875 by the (until now unknown) silversmith Ð—Ð— (cyr.) = SS (lat.) working from 1872-1881 and assayed by the (until now unknown) assay master Ð˜Ðš (cyr.) = IK (lat.) in Moscow, on duty 1871-1880.
It is a common Russian stopka and not a kiddush cup - but kiddush cup sounds better on the antique market.

Regards
Postnikov
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jlewisso · Post by **jlewisso** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:10 pm

I was used a Kiddush cup by my family. B/c it had no specific religious markings or hebrew on it, I figured it could have been a a general purpose cup that was used for religious purposes.

Thank you
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Qrt.S · Post by **Qrt.S** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:41 am

It is an interesting statement Postnikov made, that it would be an unknown assayer. That would mean that there were two assayers i Moscow using the same initials during almost the same period, i.e Ð˜Ðš as Ivan Yefimovich Konstantinov 1876-1882 and this unknown Ð˜Ðš 1872-1882 (P#2114). To my mind, that is hardly possible. More likely is, that Konstantinov's working period differs from the assumed 1876-82. But you'll never know...
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