Need help with Hallmark !

[sean01]

can anyone give me any information on this spoon????

thanks sean

[Theoderich]

it is a Hallmark from Portugal
http://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think Silverport will give You a better answer.

[silverport]

Hello

Always: Welcome in »925-1000« with your questions!

Please don’t be disappointed: It’s a souvenir sugar spoon, to remember Portugal. Crown is an addition of fantasy; the coat of Portugal is in principle correct.

Marks are »Pseudo-marks« - with an attempt, to fit in mark’s appearance, in use until 1887. Reason there fore could be, 1. To make an “Antique-look”; 2. Not to collide with recent law of assay.

Let’s start mark’s observation:

First mark should suggest a maker’s mark, which is much worn.
From XV century until 1887 this kind of Initials mark was usual — with some possible variations, e.g. symbols.

Second mark should suggest a usual assay mark of Porto or Guimarẽs.
Their cartouche was often a vertical rectangle with clipped edges; inside almost a crown, and letter P or G.
A G without crown was in use only in second half of XIX century — but that letter G was fine, never bold!

Third mark should suggest an additional mark (of fantasy).
As already mentioned, it was possible to have a symbol as maker’s mark — almost only Goldsmith’ had symbols.

It is a cast spoon — not a hand wrought one.

Engravings of spoons front side look are recently made; in relation to parts of the spoon which should suggest being an “Antique” spoon.

All this shouldn’t hinder you to use the spoon — and in summer you could visit Porto’s souvenir shops. Maybe you would find there more. Water for to start the day shower freshet; and for one, or two, or more cups of coffee afterwards, are already sufficient delivered by St. Peter’s team. Welcome there!

Kind regards silverport

[silverport]

Hello

Please forgive my “Pegasus”, that during typing he wasn’t very concentrated — because he had missed his holy afternoon exercise of a nap.

There fore I must correct me: For suggest a passed time, spoon maker added a crown on spoon’s finial; Portugal was in his history, centuries long a Kingdom — but here isn’t added a King’s crown.

Assay marks (»Contraste«) of towns in Portugal were in her history almost crowned (until 1887). But you must always hold in mind, that not all marks, which are crowned, are Portuguese, e.g. Paris (France).

Indicator of town was their names first initial letter; most times crowned — and their form of cartouche.
A = Aveiro — circle or oval
B = Bahia (Brazil) — oblong square domed
B = Beja - oblong square
B = Braga — shield
C = Coimbra - oblong square (Not clipped!)
E or EV = Evora - oblong square, or contour surrounded
F = Faro — oval, or oblong square
F = Funchal (Madeira) - oblong square crown domed
G = Guimarẽs — circle, oval, or contour surrounded
G only = Guimarẽs — in oblong square with clipped edges = mark nr. 2554, vol. I, p. 267
L = Lisbon - contour surrounded
Celestial sphere = Lisbon — in a kind of circle
Ship only = Lisbon - contour surrounded, or in a circle
L = Pseudo Assay mark (used in Brazil) — semi circle oval, or oblong square with clipped edges
M = Minas Gerais (Brazil) - semi circle oval, or oblong square domed
P = Porto - oblong square with clipped edges
R = Rio de Janeiro (Brazil) — oblong square, or shield
S = Santarém — S above town’s port, or S crowned
S = Setúbal — oval, or oblong square
Well, this is a rough sketch of »principles« only; there are many variations in marks details!

Source: «Marcas de Contrastes e Ourives Portugueses» ISBN 972-27-0773-6. Vol. I (XV century — 1887). Reprint 3rd ed. 1997, Lisbon.

Kind regards silverport

[silverport]

Hello again

Marks on your spoon are so extreme worn, that I must state that your spoon is cast from a before made and assayed original — maybe with a mould from a mould? Spoon is not a twenty, maybe also not a teeny? It seems to me, that the spoon is much younger as you self!

By extreme enlarged image, second mark let imagine an assay mark from Porto, for 833/1,000 fineness (sitting boar, looking left side; lower left corner a Roman cipher: II [= 833/1,000]).

This type of assay mark was in Porto in function from 1887-1937.

The upper mark, on which I made an intensive attempt to decipher, is then a »pseudo-mark«! Maybe already taken over from the mould of a mould, for to make the assayed original - and then after was used this original for to make an other mould? ... That is not very artistic - even not ingenious!

In that time period from 1887 on, Portugal wide, all gold - and silversmith’s had to register a totaly new maker’s mark in conformity to a new maker’s mark system:

Maker’s mark had to contain the first letter of maker’s first Christian name, in upper case letter from letter type Grotesque; Antique letter was accepted as well.

Even accepted were two letters, first letters from Christian and Family name. If it was a company’s name of two names, there was accepted the ampersand between the two first letters of Family’s name.

Additional had each maker’s mark to contain a »picture« of some thing.

Form of cartouche was free of choice.

This combination of most times fine lined Grotesque majuscule, detailed »picture«, by often in the »picture« itself integrated letter, had as result one of the almost complicated maker’s mark system on the Globe.

If you imagine this all happen on some square millimetre only!

To find in the guide the correct maker’s mark between thousands of marks, it is very important to know the letter. Often this letter is 0.5 mm in height only. And if this letter is integrated in a picture, it is most times impossible to say, which letter is shown; especially if maker’s mark punches are worn out.

An example on this spoon is the lower mark — which could be the original maker’s mark for that time period after 1887:

Shape of cartouche “could be” a guide line; the extreme form of the centred pellet “could” assist as well. But what’s signification are the vertical lines? Signs of worn out only — or part of the »picture«? Where is a letter — and which one? On the lower left part? Is there a letter C, or an O? Don’t match at all in relations to in the guide shown marks! I couldn't find this one — maybe because I'm tired now.

Makers sometimes are interested, not to be discovered — for that reason they don’t spend any attention to decipher able signs. It isn’t their matter, if a buyer or a collector get headache to find out, who made it.

Money, the maker has got from the retailer for this spoon, has already got a fleeting nature, in a transitional form - some where in the Atlantic Ocean maybe?

Please forgive me that I will stop here my activity and attention for to decipher this objects maker.

As I said already: All this shouldn’t hinder you to use the spoon.

Kind regards silverport