IVAN - HISTORY LESSON NEEDED

[ARGENTUM49]

Lesson from history needed!
Moscow delta hallmark, 84, also on the push — button. Maker`s mark: only the second letter well recognizable ``H`` (to many makers ending with H in Moscow) Poor close -up.``Samorodnoe`` back.
I have tried for years to identify the CAPS. They are all different: different ages in Slavic history or different regions? I have asked the Russians, well educated people — no answer.
Any suggestions about the caps they have?
Thanks to all,
Ivan

[Postnikov]

Hi Ivan -
interesting cigarette case with several question marks.
Please check the measures, all the different Russian cigarette cases have more or less exact the same measures, cigarillo cases are a bit larger.



The persones look like Caucasians with this special (made of silver) decoration on the breast of their coats. I have the name for it forgotten, sometimes you can find it in auctions. The marks look fine, the unknown master is nothing unusual. What irritates me most is the marked push button and the Samorodok back. Two-surface cases are known but marked push buttons do not exist, exept with an import- or export mark.
Unfortunately your Photos are always blurry and unsharp - so it is very hard to state clear facts - it is more guessing what it could be. Maybe an export to Rumania (head wear) or Bulgaria?

Regards
Postnikov

[ARGENTUM49]

Dear Postnikov,
Thanks a lot. I suspected it had to do something with the Caucasians or Don Cossacs, but their fur — caps do not match. I think it has to do something with Old Slavs, although the ornaments on the breast you mentioned indicate Russian Caucasians.
Dimensions are exactly 8 X 12 cm. You are right about the hallmark on the push-button, it is not the same as ``kokoshnik`` inside the case (it is smaller and more oval), impossible to recognize because the silver push button is also ``samorodnoe`` and blurred. It does look like an import mark.Unfortunately I have displaced my Tardy book somewhere (I hope it is not the first sign of Alzheimer !). ``Samorodnoe`` is one of the best decors in silver of all times, at least I like it very much. It is also good that when making ``samorodnoe`` décor they were forced to use thick silver. This one, with the dimensions given is about 250 g. I remember to have paid DM 170 for it at the time, but don’t ask me what I had for lunch yesterday. I will search for those caps because I have nothing important to do (life is too short and at the same time too long).
I will let you know if I find out any information. Regards,
Ivan

[Postnikov]

Hi Ivan -
a sharp photo of the mark on the pushbutton would do! Please! There lays the solution of the riddle.
You always make our mouths water - but when it comes to sharp photos - you decline.
Ivan be nice and deliver...

Regards
postnikov

[ARGENTUM49]

Impossible! I cannot see it clearly even with 10 X magnifying glass. If it was plain surface it could be seen, but being on ``samorodnoe`` it is too blurred, although struck deep there are still ``samorodnoe`` remnants within the small oval hallmark. Only the sides of the push-button are polished. The only plain surfaces inside are on the sides of the lid, but push — buttons are commonly hallmarked. Anyway, it is not an important piece of silver to bother about. I just wanted the caps identification. Regards,
Ivan

[Dad]

Hi

On a cigaret case russians soldiers of second half of 17 centuries - streltzy (стрельцы) are represented (pic.). Behind them in high caps - boyars (бояре).

Dear Ivan, with such bad photos of marks it is very difficult to define (((. Show sharp photos of marks from both parts of a cigaret case, please.

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Here is a picture of Russian boyars i.e. Russian nobility. Please not the headgear.