Silver spoon. Help?!

[LauraK]

Hi, can anyone help me with identifying the marks on this spoon please? From what I've been told it's sterling, 1800's and made in London. I think possibly made by Edward Henry Turberville? But there is the mark 1st WY stamped over the top? It also has a viking ship engraved on the front. This spoon was found in a field in north Devon. Any help most appreciated.

[buckler]

The WY mark is probably William Yardley, a bucklemaker who married the widow of Samuel Beedall, another bucklemaker .
He later diversified into sword furniture and even bought a perfumery business. Older reader may have encountered "Yardley's Old English Lavender " - a brand existing until quite recently.
He is listed with his presumed brother James YARDLEY at 5, Thorney Street, Bloomsbury as J & W Yardley, Bucklemakers , in the Post Ofice Directory of 1805. I suspect that this an unrecorded, and probably unauthorised mark of that supposed partnership made by James, who apppears to have been, from the evidence of his buckles, considerably less than honest .

If you could examine the I ?/ WY mark and tell us if the ? could be another Y this would help please

[LauraK]

Hello, thank you very much for your reply. Very interesting information!
The mark on the top is 1st WY. As in the number 1 then a small st, with WY underneath.
1st
WY

[buckler]

Is there any chance of you being able to get a good close up photo of these marks please ? Most interesting !

[LauraK]

My camera isn't great at close ups I'm afraid, but hopefully these pics are clearer.

[buckler]

Very many thanks for the images . Even my optimism cannot make IY/WY of that mark , it certainly looks like 1st/WY.
A very interesting set of sponsors/ makers marks indeed and I'm baffled .

Assay date of spoon we can date very precisely. With the date letter "U" and the unicusped duty mark it must be between 15th June and 31st August 1815.
The ship is almost certainly the crest of the owner of the spoon, from the style probably the original owner .

Now Trevor has returned , we'll see what he has to say.
Put him on the spot anyhow !

[LauraK]

Thank you so much for your help. It's certainly turned out to be a fascinating spoon! If Trevor or anyone else can shed some light too I would be most appreciative!

[dognose]

Hi,

Not much to add I'm afraid, except to say that the overstruck mark may well be of overseas origin. The clue that prompts that thought is the orientation of the crest, the fact that it faces away from the bowl is sometimes found on continental silver, but very rarely on British pieces. 'WY' therefore is most likey indicating that the hallmarks on this spoon equate to the 1st standard in his/her country.

Tuberville was certainly not the maker of this spoon, his working career was yet to come. The 'EH' mark has been noted before on spoons but as yet their identity is unknown.

Sorry if my thoughts disappoint, I, like Clive, would have loved it to have been Yardley, but I cannot connect the two. Hopefully another member has some thoughts regarding this interesting set of marks.

Clive, I came across this avertisement from 1862, interestingly they claim 1770 as the date the perfume business started. The address is a Bloomsbury one as was the Thorney Street one.


Yardley & Statham - London - 1862

Trev.

[admin]

Hi,
Fascinating mark. Can't recall ever seeing an inverted crest on an English handle before, nor on an American or Canadian piece. However the use of 1st indicates that WY was working in an English speaking country or colony. Hope someone is able to track him down.

Regards, Tom

ps. my mom was a salesgirl at the Yardley Shop on 5th ave in the early 1960's. I grew up thinking they were the only soapsmiths in the world. Glad to learn there is a silver connection.

[buckler]

Thanks Trevor. Your experience with spooons and the placing of crests thereon makes foreign sub-mark theory very feasable - although the suscript "st" indicates the use of the English language. A nice puzzle indeed .

Concerning the soap business the 1770 date is probably right for the Yardley firm. According to Southwick " London Silver Hilted Swords -their Makers.......etc " the business was started by Samuel Cleaver (1749 - 1805). His eldest son , William Cleaver married William Yardley's eldest daughter Herminer (Hermione ?) in 1801 and her sister Rosina Yardley married William Cleaver' younger brother Edward in 1808. After Samuel's death, probably caused by confusion over his daughters in law, the two brothers "were unable to maintain a successful business venture and over the next eighteen years gradually became insolvent .......Willian Yardley probably became involved in order to support his son-in law Willliam Cleaver and his own son Charles who was at one stage a partner in the firm". The firm collapsed in 1823 and it appears that William Yardley, ever the opportunist , took over both the premises and business atthe end of 1823. He died within a year. A busy man, he and his wife had at least nine children.

[LauraK]

Most intriguing! Thank you all for your input. I will use your thoughts to research further and in the event I do come up with anything will update you. I'm very glad I kept hold of this spoon now.

[dognose]

A thought has crossed my mind that perhaps this is possibly a piece of mess silver and the '1st WY' not the mark of another silversmith, but maybe the mark that identifies the regiment that owned the piece.

Could '1st WY' be something along the lines of 1st Worcestershire Yeomanry or 1st Warwickshire Yeomanry?

Trev.

[buckler]

Good lateral thinking Trev - that may be the answer

[Granmaa]

I've been in contact with someone who knows a bit about regiments and so forth. He says that "The 1st WY is the mark of the 1st Regiment of York (West Riding) Militia, ie 1st West York or 1st WY."
He also suggests, LauraK, that it might be worth researching what this Militia was doing and where it was deployed around the time this spoon was made.

Miles

[dognose]

Excellent, Miles. Another mystery solved on 925-1000.com

Trev.

[LauraK]

Thank you so much for that info Miles! Most helpful!
I've been very busy so not had any time to spend on researching but I will keep you all posted with anything I do find out.

Many thanks

[LauraK]

Just a quick Google (don't know if this is correct?) puts the 1st West Riding at the battle of Waterloo. I may have that completely wrong though, this is what it says....

The two Yorkshire regiments present during the Waterloo campaign were the:

1 st Battalion of the 33 rd Regiment of Foot, (1 st West Riding) Regiment , referred to hereafter as the 33 rd; and the

51 st (2 nd Yorkshire West Riding) Light Infantry referred to hereafter as the 51st.

The 33 rd was part of the 3 rd Division commanded by Lieutenant- General Count Charles von Alten, and were part of the 5 th British Brigade, commanded by Major-General Sir Colin Halkett, which comprised:

2 nd Battalion/30 th (Cambridgeshire) Regiment, commanded by Major Morris William Bailey — 635 men

1 st Battalion/33 rd (1 st Yorkshire West Riding) Regiment, commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel William Keith Elphinstone — 561 man

[dognose]

Some details of the mess plate belonging to the 3rd West Yorkshire Regiment which may give a little insight into the amount of silverware that may have been in use at the time:





Source: Origin and services of the Third West Yorkshire (Light Infantry) Regiment of Militia - William Sheardown - 1870

Trev.