Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

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CAG
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Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by CAG »

I have a SS teaspoon (pictured) which has a Lion and Three castles London and Newcastle. The Date is 'L'. Has a Queen Victoria Duty Stamp and the maker is 'TW'. If someone can help me find where it was made I might be able to work out the date and the maker.
Thanks
CAG
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by CAG »

Here is the picture link:
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4416/1005136s.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
oel
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by oel »

Hi,

Welcome to the forum,
I believe it to be a Newcastle date letter L for the year 1850-1851
Maker’s mark TW for Thomas Wheatley active 1826 to 1860
Castle Street, Carlisle; subsequently English Street, Carlisle
Could also be IW for John Walton active 1821-1866
Painter Heugh, Newcastle

I am not sure about the reason of the double city marks but I know for sure others will.

Oel
CAG
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by CAG »

Thanks oel - I have blown up the pic to 200% and it is definately 'IW'.
I am hanging to know if someone can help with the two city marks.
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by MCB »

The Newcastle office consistently applied both the three castles and leopard's head punches as parts of their hallmark. The latter mark isn't indicative of any London involvement.
Mike
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by CAG »

Thanks MCB
A similar notation from Bexfield Silversmiths London:
It is how all the hallmarks were for Newcastle. Taking their instruction from London Assay Office as the established authority, probably thought it added security/public perception to their office. Sincerely,Daniel Bexfield.
So problem solved.
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Re: Can an item have the city marks of two cities on it?

Post by dognose »

errrr... the reason the Leopard's Head was struck by some provincial offices, was due to a badly worded Act of Parliament. When the old standard was restored following the passing of the 1719 'Act for Laying a Duty on Wrought Plate' , Parliament seemed almost oblivious to the working of the provincial offices, and worded the Act as if it was only directed at London.

I only have to hand a shortened version of the Act to hand, and it makes no mention of any particular office. The part of the Act that caused the confusion was as follows:

From and after 1st June , 1720, all silver vessels of plate or manufactured of silver shall not be less in fineness than that of 11oz. 10dwt. of fine silver in every pound troy, or of silver less in finess than 11oz. 2dwt. of fine silver in every troy pound; which two different standards of wrought plate shall be severally and respectively marked with distinguishing mark; (that is to say), vessels made of silver plate or manufactured silver, not less in fineness that 11oz. 10dwt. of fine silver in every troy pound, to be marked with the workman's mark, the mark of the wardens of the mystery or craft of the goldsmiths, and with the figure of the lion's head erased and the figure of a woman called the Britannia; and all vessels of silver plate or manufactured silver, not less in fineness than 11oz. 2dwt. of fine silver in every pound troy, and under the degree of 11oz. 2dwt. of fine silver in every pound troy, shall be marked with the workman's mark, the wardens of the mystery or craft of the goldsmiths as aforesaid, and with the the figure of the Lion Passant, and the figure of a Leopard's Head.

Following the passing of the Act, the provincial offices had no choice really but to comply with the badly worded law, and Exeter, York, Chester, and Newcastle added the Leopard's Head to their marks. Exeter dropped that particular mark in 1777, but the others continued. Neither Birmingham or Sheffield used the mark following their establishment in 1773.

Trev.
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