Please help to identify ancient Silver Fibula with Pin Stem

[monetanova]

Obverse looks like to be originally covered with gold layer, I can see hammered marks on reverse (*23* or *32*), on pin stem and ring (/// - three slash lines and some patterns hardly describable). Weight - 25 grams.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/5.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8223697/6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks in advance for any input or advice.

[AG2012]

Almost half of the mark is obliterated by the clasp attachment. One cannot strike marks like that. It seems the clasp attachment was soldered later over the mark. Is it soft solder — tin — it looks like that? You can check easily with a needle; soft solder will be scratched and no damage done. If so, I would consider a repair, not a difficult task.But tin must be completely cleaned off silver,otherwise one cannot use hard solder. Besides, two back attachments were most probably transposed; the narrow one (A) should be on the opposite side instead of B. If so, the mark would be clearly seen, and I think it was the original shape of fibula.

[AG2012]

Forgot something; even if early medieval, and let alone in the ancient world, fibulae were not supposed to be marked.
Now the function; fibulae were actually brooches to fasten clothing.
How does this one work? Is the needle hinged somehow? I don’t think so; it seems only the ring is free to rotate, if so, what do we do with a protruding needle?

[pinksteel]

Hi, in researching a similar pin that I have, I found that your piece is a penannular brooch. If you look up "Celtic Brooch" in Wikipedia, you will see the history and that they were made in other areas besides Great Britain.

[pinksteel]

Also look up Berber fibula.

[AG2012]

Great info by pinksteel. Imazighen people,Berbers,being one of the oldest nations,have been in contact with Ancient Romans but their fibula,very consistent in form with the one posted,was fixed differently (fixed needle and the ring).Would really like to see how it works.But again,it is not expected to be marked,unless made much,much later.In short, this cannot be ancient world.Please,reconsider the fact the mark is obliterated.Tin soldered? If mine I would really be tempted to dismantle it and clean the solder,if tin.It melts at very low temperature and cannot harm the item.On the other hand,not many professional jewelers would accept this for repair.Leave it like this and enjoy it.

[pinksteel]

This article explains how the pins work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_brooch

I posted the one I have (I think it's Moroccan) on another board here and figured all this out after I posted for info. I tried fastening the pin as the article described and it holds very well.

[monetanova]

It's silver soldering and was probably made in 16th century.

[AG2012]

What I have seen the needle is free to rotate. Not fixed to the brooch.
The marks; the first recorded Paris mark is 1677, the first recorded London mark is 1558, Moscow 1651.
Who punched silver in 16th century with our numerals?

[pinksteel]

This is a google image searh for Berber Fibula, check them out:

http://www.google.com/search?q=berber+f ... 99&bih=802

[AG2012]

You are right;the needle is fixed,the ring rotates.Thanks a lot.