Dutch "LvD" mark from 1827

[R ingo]

Hello,
I have two identic spoons with identic engravings. So it seems, the spoons belongs together. But interestingly the marks are not identic.
One spoon is marked with Dutch marks from 1827, the other spoon is marked with "BESTENBOSTELL 750.B".

The "BESTENBOSTELL" mark looks younger and seems to be a retailer-mark. The only Goldsmith Bestenbostell I know is Friedrich Wilhelm von Bestenbostell (1799-1870) from Celle, Lower Saxony (Scheffler, Goldschmiede Niedersachsens p 271 f.).

Has someone an idea, who is the maker "LvD" and whether and how the spoons belongs together?


Kind regards, Ringo

[Francais]

As far as the mark goes there is a LvD mark listed in a square cartouche. The mark shown is just a drawing and the writing sits lower in the square, but it seems likely. In any case it is L.M. van DUREN, Zutpen 1824. But I am really posting to answer the second question. Whichever spoon is earlier, the owner went in to the later silversmith and asked for a second spoon (or more) that is exactly the same. I have as small set of English spoons which are absolutely identical to some American spoons, engraving, size, style, etc. Your two silversmiths were a lot closer than my two were.
Maurice

[Francais]

Sorry it should be 1824.... meaning or later.
Maurice

[oel]

Hi Ringo,

LvD for; L.M van Duren, registered in Zutphen from 1824 till around 1840(?), the Minerva head regional assay office letter H for Arnhem (38km from Zutphen), date letter sript S for 1827
Wilhelm von Bestenbostell (1799-1870) from Celle, German master smith. NB spoon without German maker's/hallmark/city mark.

The city of Zutphen located in the province of Gelderland; an old fortified stronghold due to its strategic confluence of the rivers IJssel and Berkel, a garrison town and trading town with a long trading history and mixed population of; garrison soldiers & traders from different countries, immigrants from Germanic countries and Southern Netherlands, Huguenots etc.

It could be possible, the spoon(s) originated in Germany and extra copie(s) and/or re-placement(s) were made in the city of Zutphen by silversmith L.M. van Duren, and assayed according to the Dutch Hallmarking Law.

Oel.

[oel]

Hi Ringo are you sure about the registration date of Friederich Wilhem von Bestenbostell being 1799-1870 ?

Could it be Friederich Wilhelm von Bestenbostell, born 9-5-1799 and master smith/meister1828-1870, registered in Celle. NB spoon without German hallmark/city mark.
According to: Goldschmiede Niedersachsens: Daten - Werke - Zeichen. Halbbd. 1; Friederich Wilhelm von Bestenbostell had a silver workshop in Celle from 1828-1870 and used the master’s mark: "Bestenbostell" within a rectangle but also without rectangle see Scheffler; nr 533 and this mark seen on spoons.

If so in that case: the spoon(s) originated in Zutphen and extra copie(s) and/or re-placement(s) were made later in the city of Celle by silversmith Friederich Wilhelm von Bestenbostell and if privately ordered this could explain the the missing (assay) city mark of Celle. The later date, I guess somewhere made around 1850, could explain the 'fresh look' of Bestenbostell's mark name. I believe the "750 vB" could indicate the silver fineness used by von Bestenbostell; 750 = 12 lot.

Oel.

[R ingo]

Hello Maurice and Oel,

I thank You very much for Your helpfull advises.

Thanks and kind regards,
Ringo