18th Century Ladle

[lmallier]

Hi,
I have this huge ladle (300 grs, 38 cms long) in solid silver with confusing hallmarks.
There are (hard to read) 18th century hallmarks, only one being the leaf with number 3 dating it to 1786 (Paris) but the later ones Coq and head indicate departement 36 which is Grenoble (and not Paris !).





Any thoughts on this?
Many thanks in advance.
Louis.

[JayT]

You have an attractive ladle in the thread (filet) pattern.

I can make out four late 18th C marks found on 950 standard silver made in Paris:
-Date letter mark of a crowned P for 1786, with the date just beneath the crown.
-Discharge mark of a leaf with a circular border for 1786, which you have identified.
-Maker’s mark, with the letter A visible on the right, maybe, and perhaps a C on the left. Could you sharpen the image of the maker’s mark or tell us what other letters or symbols you can decipher? I might be able to help identify the maker.
-By elimination, the charge mark could be the distorted mark in a reserve that looks like a grain of rice. To have concordance between these marks, the charge mark for 1786 should be an A with a circular border with a 6 between the legs of the A. Do you think you can make out such a charge mark?

Now comes the fun part. The object also has post-Revolutionary provincial marks in use from 1798-1809. The walking rooster in an octagonal reserve for 800 standard silver [why only 800 standard?], and the guarantee mark from Grenoble for medium-sized objects.

It is acceptable to have objects remarked at a later date, but ideally you would want to see a recount mark
(poinçon de recense) as well. For this time period it would be a head wearing a Phrygian bonnet facing left.

A nice puzzle.

[lmallier]

Hi JayT,
thanks for your comprehensive answer.
You are absolutely right, I found out exactly what you wrote. It is easier to recognize hallmarks when you can compare them to the ones depicted in books!
So to summarize:

Date letter mark of a crowned P for 1786, with the date just beneath the crown: OK, exactly as you said. The P not perfectly readable but I could see the 86 numbers just beneath the crown!




-Discharge mark of a leaf with a circular border for 1786, which you have identified.:OK, it was the easiest to find that is why I only got this one :-)


-Maker’s mark, with the letter A visible on the right, maybe, and perhaps a C on the left. Could you sharpen the image of the maker’s mark or tell us what other letters or symbols you can decipher? I might be able to help identify the maker.: very hard to decipher. It might be an L on the left side and an A for sure as you said on the right side.




-By elimination, the charge mark could be the distorted mark in a reserve that looks like a grain of rice. To have concordance between these marks, the charge mark for 1786 should be an A with a circular border with a 6 between the legs of the A. Do you think you can make out such a charge mark?: absolutely right, I found the A with the circular border but the 6 is impossible to read. Let us consider it is a 6 ;-)



Warm regards.

[JayT]

We’re making progress. Thanks for posting the printed images of the date letter, charge and discharge marks for 1786 — they are a help to online viewers.

I’m normally very cautious about maker’s mark attributions, but in this case exceptionally I’m going w-a-a-y out on a limb and will attribute the maker to Claude-Auguste Aubry. His first mark was CA and a star. His second mark (this one) was CA with a bishop’s crosier as a symbol. Google pictures has a picture of his second mark for you to compare and see what you think.

I’m not fiercely devoted to this attribution, so am willing to listen to reason if you suggest some other maker. My opinion is based on correct time-frame, my familiarity with the mark, the general availability of this maker’s work, and good old gut feeling.

Aubry had a long career in Paris on Rue St-Jacques (1758-1768) and then on Rue de l’Arbre Sec (1768 — ca. 1791). He was fairly prolific (in 1774 ranked 89th in terms of tax paid) and was a well-regarded maker. For example, he supplied a dessert service in 1778 to Catherine of Russia, and his work is found today in major museums. See Nocq, v.1, p. 26.

Hope this helps.

[lmallier]

You should have said: I rest my case ;-)
Absolutely agree with your clever explanations and conclusion.
Many thanks for your great contribution.
Cheers.
Louis.

[JayT]

You're welcome Louis. It has been a pleasure.

[WarrenKundis]

Thank you both for sharing with the group. Was so perplexed needed to have a closer look at the actual makers mark. Here is a link for an ASCAS article "Silver Hallmarks for Paris (1723-1774) that displays an example of the mark described.

http://www.ascasonline.org/articolonovem103.html

Warren

ps: there is an online example of a sugar swifter by Aubry at the Met that you may find interesting.

W