Help identifying French? 800 silver cutlery

[ninothedog]

Hi - I'm new to silver collecting, having only been collecting for a little over a year, but I have the bug. I've been reading this site and forum off and on for some time, and this is my first post. -- I recently bought a few place settings of forks and spoons that I thought were beautiful despite dirt and tarnish that made them nearly black. There are a couple different combinations of hallmarks on the pieces, but only one was legible before cleaning: "800", so I bought them assuming they are 800 silver, and paid a good price of about 60% more than scrap value, calculated as 80% silver. I think I probably got an excellent deal since, now that I can decipher the hallmarks, it might be I have some very old pieces. I would welcome anyone's thoughts, especially anything that might help me identify them further. Based on what I see as a woman's head facing right, with a bun or helmet on her head, I think they're probably from Paris early in the 19th century. Another hallmark is an axe with the letter B, which I suspect is an assayers mark for 800 silver and there is another mark of a head looking both right and left that I can't identify, but which is on the cover page of 925-1000.com, so I hope someone can tell me what it is.

I'm treating these pieces gently, washing in water with ammonia and Dawn and then lightly polishing with Haggerty's polish. Some of the pieces are coming up beautifully, others remain stubbornly black and one spoon cleaned up well except the bowl of the spoon is a pinkish/coppery color that is odd and makes me wonder if I bought silver plated copper even though they passed an acid test showing they were silver.

Here are some pictures - all comments are welcomed. - Thanks, Nino.

PS - even though I mentioned the '800' hallmark, it is not shown in the pictures. It is just the number 800.

[dognose]

Hi Nino,

Welcome to the Forum.

Not French, but Belgian. Auguste Bonnevie. See: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... vie#p89062

and: http://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks.html

Trev.

[ninothedog]

Thanks Trev, That looks to be right. One of the other marks I didn't photograph was a Roman B inside a script B, which I found, after your input, was the mark for "Bousin-Bonnevie (L. N. Bousin & Emile Bonnevie), active in Schaerbeek (one of the nineteen Brussels-Capital municipalities), 1878-1911." http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26231 Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. Slightly disappointed it wasn't Napoleon's personal silver, but that's how it goes. - Nino

[ninothedog]

Hi - I just noticed a contradiction with my understanding of the marks for these pieces. The makers mark Roman B inside Script B is attributed to Bousin-Bonnevie, who were active after 1875 (http://www.blakstone.com/BousinBonnevie.JPG) but the Janus 2 mark, for 800 silver, went out of use in 1868 (http://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks.html) These two periods don't overlap. Were there two Bonnevies, Emile & Auguste? Father and son? Might the BB have been used by the Bonnevies before M. Bousin was involved? Or am I misinterpreting things? -- Any insights are appreciated. Thanks, Nino.

[ninothedog]

Ah - just noticed that the two different marks don't exist together in my pictures. I will need to check if they do on any of the other pieces. Though they all match as a set, the hallmarks appear in different configurations from piece to piece. Will take another look.

[ninothedog]

I think I figured it out. Half the utensils, those with the Janus hallmark, are pre-1868, and the other half, with the BB hallmark are post-1870. I think that's right. Here are the other hallmarks, not shown above:

[oel]

Hi,

The Janus hallmark for 2nd standard or 833.3/1000 fineness actually used in 1832 till 1869 and
the A2 standard mark for 2nd standard or 800/1000 fineness used 1869-1942, however the gold and silver smiths did not have to register any longer and they did not have to present their works for assaying. Marks were no longer obliged. Nonetheless, one could ask the authorities for an assaying against payment, but this was optional and only possible if the alloy was at least equal to a legal standard.

The maker’s mark is for Bousin- Bonnevie registered in Brussels 1878-1911


Oel.

Ref:Walter Van Dievoet, General Register of the goldsmiths and the marking of precious metals in Belgium from 1798 to 1942 II.

[ninothedog]

Great - thank you, Oel. - I think it's interesting that 1/2 my set was pre-1869 (based on Janus hallmark) and the other half was post-1878 (based on BB hallmark.)