Beaker, Paris 1768-1775? Maker PNN

[GregHodgson1]

Hi

First of all let me say how much I enjoy this site. I have spent a number of hours reading and always learning something new.

I have identified this beaker as being French, Paris 1768-1775. The beaker has two marks on the base and one on the outside near the rim. It also has some incised marks which look very crude considering the object. These are probably french but cannot translate.

Having read previous posts and the reference pages I make the following assumptions:

On the base of the beaker is The Mark of Charge (poincon de charge) showing this from Paris 1768-1775. As these were applied prior to the makers mark I assume the other mark on the base of the beaker is the maker. However I have not found out who this is.** There is also the Discharge Mark, again showing the period 1768-1775. I can find no other markings on the beaker - although there appear to be triangle nicks.

My reading on French Silver suggests there should be a fourth mark on the object; maker's mark, mark of charge, mark of discharge, mark of "maison commune (jurande). Am I missing something?

The beaker is 10.5 cms high and 8 cms at its rim. It feels great to hold as it sits nicely in the hand with a good weight.

At first I thought the beaker was German Hanau Silver pretending to be something else and spent some time reading up on this subject but I still come back to France.

I would appreciate any advice or help that can be given. Many thanks. Greg

** When previewing this post I notice the other mark has the letter PNN - have only been looking at this for several weeks and not seen it! Is this initials of the maker?

[JayT]

Hello Greg
Here is my feedback on your timbale. You have read the eigthteenth C Paris marks well: the charge mark (crowned A), and the discharge mark (helmeted head). The date letter or poinçon de jurande is there, but hiding. It was stamped over the maker's mark and is a crowned K for 1773!

With the help of Nocq, v. 3, pp. 274-75, I'm able to identify the maker PNN, Pierre-Nicolas Navel. Symbol is a rifle (un fusil) which can be seen clearly underlining the PN. Navel was the eldest son of a silversmith, Claude-Nicolas Navel. Navel senior's career was cut short by his death in 1762. His widow continued the business, working until 1791 on rue aux Fèves. This means that Pierre-Nicolas and his mother were working at the same time, but at different addresses. It is not clear why he didn't join the family business. His mother was higher on the tax roles than her son, meaning her production was higher.

Pierre-Nicolas had a somewhat checkered career, with gaps and absences. He was received as master in February 1772. Thus your beaker dates from the early part of his career. In 1774 he was working at Place Dauphine. From 26 August 1778 - 10 December 1781 he left Paris. He reappeared on the list of Paris makers in 1789, rue de Harley, then at rue de la Grande Truanderie in 1792. By 1793 he was no longer listed.

FYI, the maker's mark was always stamped first, not the charge mark.

The engraving on the outside rim of the beaker is not as clear as your otherwise excellent photos, but it appears to be a personalization. I don't know if the engraving dates to the age of the beaker, but it does look eighteenth C.

Hope this helps.

[GregHodgson1]

Hi JayT

Thank you for the very comprehensive information, I appreciate it. I can now see the PNN with rifle and the date letter. Right under my nose. I will look out for this over-stamping technique when out and about as this mark appeared to me as one.

Many thanks.

Greg

[JayT]

You're welcome!