French silver cutlery

[niceguy1]

HI

This is being offered somewhere & I’d like to ask which standard of silver is it? Who might be the maker PD?

Thanks

[JayT]

For excellent information on French silver standard marks please see the forum’s World Marks pages:

http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html

The maker is Pierre Défontaine, mark PD, symbol a boar’s head (tête de sanglier). Défontaine was a flatware maker working in Paris at 2 rue des Trois-Canettes, then at 31 rue Marmousets beginning in 1813. He first registered a mark in 1708-99, then in 1807. No end date is given, but he was mentioned in the Almanach Azur until 1820.

See Arminjon, v. I, no. 02906, p. 288.

[niceguy1]

HI JAYT

Thanks for that info. I did of course have a look at that page but am still unsure, is it 950 silver?

[JayT]

Not trying to be mean niceguy, but what do you see when comparing the marks on your flatware with the marks on the forum page? Come back to validate what you see. Here is a hint: what are the shapes of marks for 950 silver during the nineteenth century? Can you identify that shape mark on your items? What do you see inside the shapes? If you build your confidence in recognizing French silver standard marks, this will help in purchasing and selling your silver. Just a suggestion in the spirit of the community here.

[niceguy1]

HI Jay

Thanks for the education. Indeed I do have a certain amount of experience handling the buying & selling of silver but still the French hallmark page has me baffled.

Nothwithstanding the amazing amount of knowledge on this site & it’s helpful members. You are a expert, but if you take a moment to step back & look at the page through layman's eyes you will see it’s quite ‘jumbled up’ & even such a basic thing as which shape is which standard it not explained at all for the earlier marks. And how is a layman to understand the difference between Guarantee, Standard & Title?

So if you anyone can be so kind & tell me what standard the shown spoon is I’d highly appreciate it.

[Aguest]

The issue seems to be the difference between two similar, yet separate, French hallmarking systems:

From 1809-1819, this seems to be the French hallmarking system which the forks are from. The circular hallmark seems to be the "middle guarantee" and the more rectangular hallmark must be the rooster hallmark. I have to agree that someone unfamiliar with the 1809-1819 hallmarking system might get it confused with the 1819-1838 hallmarking system.

And the chart doesn't explicitly say what the little numbers mean. Does a "1" always signify "950" purity?

The Post-1838 system, the "Minerva Head" system, makes it much easier to recognize "950" silver purity, at least in my opinion.

[niceguy1]

Hi

I now have the cutlery in hand & can provide better photos. What is the tiny mark next to the makers mark? & why is it present on part of the set but lacking on other parts?

Is it possible to identify who this nice crest belonged to? It says ‘’Nec Cru Fid et Int P D ac. R’’

Thanks