French Silver Ear Tubes - Makers mark help please

[ldoc]

I have a small pair of silver ear tubes in a fitted leather case which is marked Discazaux Biarritz. A French hallmark set in an oblong which I have not identified and 2) A makers mark in an oval which shows the letters C and D either side of a fir or pine tree. See pics below.











I have found the name 'Discazaux Biarritz' on a 19th C cariage clock but can find no other reference to it, so assume this is 19th century but I would be grateful for any help in identifying the hallmark, or the maker's detais. Many thanks.

Laurie

[ldoc]

Replying to my own post.

I cleaned the silver and I'm pretty sure that the oblong hallmark is the weevil (see updated photos). This was mentioned in an earlier topic http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 106#p78106 which says:

"French import mark for silver called the Weevil. Silver items from French treaty countries were struck with the weevil in a rectangle mark, used 1893-1984. Fineness minimum .800. Treaty countries are those countries with which France had signed commercial customs treaties. ...The Netherlands was one."

Hallmarkwiki.com refers to the same mark as a flea and says when in a rectangle it is the 800 silver guarantee used for imports from 1893. So there is some consistency.

However, to my untrained eye the letters and picure in a lozenge does seem to fit the bill for the form of a French makers mark, so I am not sure how this would have been an import. I've looked at Dutch marks which bear no resemblance. I don't think there is any question about the letters, or that the picture is a fir tree or pine.

Grateful for any input from the expertise on this forum in identifying the maker's mark.

Laurie

[ldoc]

Oops! It is not a lozenge,it is an oval, which may mean I need to look for a makers mark outside of France. Aside from the Netherlands does anyone know who the French treaty countries were at the end of the 19th century?

Are there any resources I should use?

With thanks.

[ldoc]

So, reporting back on my solitary journey of discovery, and working on the late 19th C and having ruled out Japan, Russia, Turkey, Italy and UK (on the basis that I have seen nothing even close to this style in online examples). I am working on the assumption that this piece was imported to France from Austria, Hungary or Germany in or around the late 19th century.

Information on makers marks for these countries seems quite thin on the ground and aside from Google searches I am not sure where to look. I am at the mercy of this forum and hoping some kind, passing, knowledgeable soul might see fit to put me out of my misery by identifying what looks like quite a charactistic and well preserved makers mark and linking it with the syle of a particualr country ... or even a maker.

Any snippets of information which might help to steer me would be appreciated.

Laurie

[dognose]

Hi Laurie,

Well done with the research so far.

Just thinking outside the box, perhaps the items were imported into France unmarked? Could the 'CD' mark be the retailer mark of Discazaux?

Just guessing!

Trev.

[ldoc]

Many thanks Trev,

That's a good thought. I don't really have the foggiest how these things were done. I'd sort of assumed that this was a makers and that the person who made it stamped their ID on it at the time it was made and that the import must have followed that. It certainly looks as if Discazaux would have packaged it in a little leather and silk case with their name on it and that they were the retailers. The only other piece of theirs I have seen is a carriage clock and that did have their name on it the dial of the clock (but no mark). I had imagined that whoever put the mark on it would have been the silversmith. Can a silver mark be an indication of the retailer rather than the maker? There is a "D" in there which would be a good start and if it had been DB I would be sold. There are more questions here than I have answers for.

My guess is that the only resolution here will come from nailing down the attribution of that mark. It does look unequivocal in its form and lettering and if I can just link that to a similar example or reference it should give the info I need. The likelihood of turning this information up given that I don't really know the country of origin may be a tall order. I can understand that the question of where to look would be very much country dependant.

I had hoped that one of your experienced users (and that of course includes you kind sir!) might see it and know from prior anecdotal experience that it was a mark typical of a given country. This is a great resource and these threads seem to get a lot of views by what I presume are the 'silverati' (for want of a better word), so I remain quietly optimistic that time will provide an answer.

Best - Laurie

[Aguest]

From 1868 until 1942 hallmarking was not compulsory in Belgium, and in an article I read about "Belgian Art Deco Silver" it does say that sometimes Belgian silversmiths had hallmarks which paid tribute to the French tradition of silversmithing and therefore had stylistic similarities to French makers' marks :: So if you are looking for a country without official hallmarks, and there is just one makers mark which has stylistic similarities to French makers' marks, wouldn't Belgium make sense as a first place to start looking?

[ldoc]

Hi Aguest,

Thanks. Yes, that all sounds like infallable logic. I'm on it, although nothing on a first internet trawl. Does anyone know of a good resource for Belgium silver maker's marks?

Laurie

[oel]

Regarding Belgian hallmarks and maker's marks written in Dutch, French, German & English a very good source ;
Walter van Dievoet, Algemeen repertorium van de edelsmeden en van de merken van edelsmeedwerk in België deel II 1798-1942
However your CD mark with pine tree is not mentioned in the book.

Peter.

[ldoc]

Thank you very much Peter for this. Sadly I've not had any joy either.

Best - Laurie

[Aguest]

The import weevil corresponds to French legislation which lists all the treaty countries, at least I assume this to be true, so the only starting point would be to obtain a list of these treaty countries and start investigating each country one by one, it might take a lot of work but unfortunately it seems like the most logical starting point now that Belgium has been (most likely) ruled out ::: The Weevil Strikes Back ::::