Help with egyptian hallmark

[panatha]

Hi.
I want some help with these hallmarks.
Thanks in advance

[AG2012]

Hi,
Marks are upside down. Exactly the same Egypt marks are here:
https://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks2.html

It is .900 standard (Arabic number 90).
Lotus flower (national mark)
Date letter; not sure about the letter, most likely the sixties last century.

Regards

[panatha]

Thanks a lot.

[Qrt.S]

For the records:
The given 925-link states that it is a lotus flower, which is incorrect. The Egyptian control mark is actually a stylized papyrus flower since 1940. The lotus flower resembles a water lily.

[oel]

For the records:
The given 925-link states that it is a lotus flower, which is incorrect. The Egyptian control mark is actually a stylized papyrus flower since 1940. The lotus flower resembles a water lily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyperus_papyrus
Nonsens Qrt.S, why no source mentioned?

For the record:
Egypt silver hallmarks 1916 to date.

The first silver hallmark of this period was represented by the core image of an Egyptian temple cat. Beginning in 1913, the first cat hallmark was in a semi-arched frame-shape with the cat's tail down. Just a few years later in 1916, laws were passed and the frame-shape was adjusted to a square with cut- corners. The core image of the standing Egyptian cat turned in direction to facing left with raised tail. In October 1946, the core image for silver was changed to the Nymphaealotus lotus flower blossom. The lotus flower has ever since represented the Egyptian national country hallmark for silver. Over the years, there have been variations to the lotus design.

In ancient times the Egyptian lotus was worshiped, especially in Egypt. It was considered a symbol of creation there. In Ancient Greece, it was a symbol of innocence and modesty.The Egyptian lotus is the national flower of Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphaea_lotus


From left to right: assay office identifier-Cairo, above fineness mark = 90% ٩٠, the Lotus Flower. The year letter could be a variation of de Arabic letter ص used Januari 1965-Januari 1968

Peter.

Source; Hallmarks Research Institute World Hallmarks Volume II Asia, Middle East, Africa

[Qrt.S]

@Oel
Yes let the records show that your quote is one of the errors in the World Hallmarks and not the only one. There are many errors in it. In my input I wrote stylized papyrus flower. Here a picture of a stylized papyrus flower.

Here a picture of the Egyptian hallmark

Here a link also verifying what I am writing.
http://www.silvercollection.it/EGYPTSIL ... MARKS.html
Moreover, another source is Miller's Encyclopedia of World Silver Hallmarks, page 971
And here a picture of lotus flower.

Now it is up to the readers to decide is the Egyptian hallmark a papyrus or a lotus flower.

[oel]

I would like to remind you what you wrote about Miller's Encyclopedia of World Silver Hallmarks
Another disappointment is Miller's Encyclopedia of World Silver Marks. Almost fainted when a read the Russian chapter. It seems to be copied from Watts with all faults and new are made.....ahhaaaa! It is also a rather new book. One must be very careful and selective when using book sources. As stated many times here, most of the books seem to be copied from each other and the snowball is growing and growing. Disinformation is spread widely, but that seems to be very popular today, this so called "alternative truth" ;-))))))
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=57986&p=189217#p189217
The site of Silvercollection unfortunately has his errors too
The Egyptian core image for silver is the (stylized) Lotus Flower.

My advise to you; please stop spreading misinformation.

Peter.

[Qrt.S]

@Peter
Please note that is is not a question of disinformation, but a problem with conflicting information in various sources. I'd like to know what is the actual truth. Moreover, yes I wrote that there are mistakes and fault in every book I know. That is a known unfortunate fact.
What proves that World Hallmark's info is more correct than other sources? I mentioned errors in the Russian Chapter in the respective book, even the Finnish chapter contains errors and I can prove with documentation if needed. I kindly ask you where are the evidence for the flower being a lotus? World Hallmark's text is not enough and how do you know that Silvercollection's text is incorrect but World Hallmarks would be correct? Have you asked the Silvercollection's admin. to correct it, if not why not?

I will revert to this matter when I have investigated it thoroughly with reliable sources. Please be patient. It might take a while. If it turns out that I' am wrong, I will apologize on these sites immediately.
Qrt.S

PS. I don't quite catch your point with the link in your message. I gave the correct name, AG2012 "corrected" it to an incorrect name and Unbaranda informed AG2012 that the name I gave in the first place was correct and AG2012's name incorrect, so??

@AG2012
Thanx, I shall immediately correct the name.

Qrt.S, don't do this! Skurlov's list contains some errors. This is one of them. Everything should be checked by the archives.
Regards.

[dognose]

Hi all,

Surely the one thing that matters here is the mark itself. The interpretation of what the mark represents is only a side issue and perhaps may never be known with any degree of certainty.

A similar debate has gone on for years as far as the London mark is concerned. Is it the 'Leopard's Head' as we all know it nowadays, or is it fact a 'Lion's Head' (much more likely) with the translation corrupted from the Latin 'Leo' (Lion) in early documents?

At the end of the day we all know the Egyptian national mark and we all know the London town mark.

Trev.

[oel]

Qrt.S, the link goes to your quote about Miller
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=57986&p=189217#p189217
[quote="Qrt.S"]@Ubaranda
....Another disappointment is Miller's Encyclopedia of World Silver Marks. Almost fainted when a read the Russian chapter. It seems to be copied from Watts with all faults and new are made.....ahhaaaa! It is also a rather new book. One must be very careful and selective when using book sources. As stated many times here, most of the books seem to be copied from each other and the snowball is growing and growing. Disinformation is spread widely, but that seems to be very popular today, this so called "alternative truth" ;-))))))


You call our information lotus mark at; https://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks2.html wrong/not reliable
You call the information given about the lotus mark at HRI; https://www.hallmarkresearch.com/ wrong/not reliable
For our information;




You write: I will revert to this matter when I have investigated it thoroughly with reliable sources. Please be patient...

Good luck. I await your apology and please take your time.

Peter.

[oel]

Hi Trev,

True indeed but the London leopard/lion head was used in 1478, very long time ago and still used today.
However the Egyptian Lotus mark was introduced in October 1946. I may say recent. To my knowledge only Hallmark Research Institute (HRI) conducted a thorough reliable research into Egyptian (hall)marks and year letters. Not something to be sniffed at.
I consider the matter closed

Regards,

Peter.

[Qrt.S]

I promised to revert to the flower in the Egyptian hallmark when I have waterproof information. I have now: It is a lotus flower. I was wrong, sorry about that. However, kindly spare me from advises like this in the future.

My advise to you; please stop spreading misinformation.

Nobody is perfect, everybody makes mistakes and nobody on these sites spreads "disinformation" on purpose. This lotus versus papyrus info is found in various sources (even reliable).
Case closed.

[dognose]

A final word perhaps, and I think best expressed in this quote:

Disagreement within a team, and the expression of diverse opinions, is creatively invaluable. All the research shows that teams whose members share the same attitudes will enjoy the experience of working together, will have good opinions of the others in the team, and be keen to repeat the experience; but creatively they will produce bugger-all. By contrast, teams whose members view things differently from one another will argue, but this creative conflict produces innovation. You want creative conflict: what you don't want is personal conflict, because that will complicate proceedings and can result all too often in deadlock.

Soure: So, Anyway..... - John Cleese - 2014

Trev.

[oel]

Qrt.S, kindly spare me your arrogance and stubbornness
Like my old friend Goldstein explained to me often; you can lead a donkey to water but you can't force it to drink

Cheers.

Peter