Small Basket 833 grade. Hanau?

[Essexboy Found]

Hello again, and so soon. I was an auction under bidder on the below silver basket. Size wise you could fit it in your hand and it was described as a bon bon dish. If I remember correctly, from a previous post these little baskets might have had a different use in Holland?
I can not totally get my head round the marks though. The 2nd grade silver guarantee lion mark is obvious but the other 2 marks seem like some Hanau silver marks. I have seen references on our site that "N2" marks were used by Gebr. Niekerk (Brothers Niekerk). One reference states "they were in Groningen (1902-1927) .. they also had a base in Schoonhoven.". Additionally it says "MC" is a documented pseudo maker's mark (used on spoons in Schoonhoven and Groningen)". Could the SH/HS mark on the base of the basket be in the same category?





https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14305

I look forward to enlightenment. Why do you get official silver grade marks on some Hanau items? Have they been submitted by the silversmiths or by a third party like a retailer / exporter?

Fishless

[oel]

Hi Fishless,

A Dutch made ajour cut oval silver bonbon basket with a beaded, slightly undulating rim, on claw feet and with bow-shaped handles, in Louis XV style.
Nothing to do with the German city of Hanau.

N2 is the mark for B. Dijkstra/Fa. Gebr. (brothers) Niekerk, registered in Groningen, this particular mark used 1902-1927. B. Dijkstra, the responsible silversmith for silverwork made by the Fa./Firm Gebr. Niekerk in Groningen. The HS mark in oval, perhaps of a retailer. The silversmith H. A. Scheers, registered in Arnhem, during 1906-1934 used a mark HS in oval but it differs slightly from the HS mark on the basket. The office mark/Minerva head and year letter are missing in the images.


For Dutch pseudo marks and pseudo marks used by Niekerk in Groningen see;
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 13#p184413

Peter.

[Aguest]

::::: I have also wondered why sometimes the Dutch pseudo-marks appear with official Dutch assay marks, but other times only the Dutch-pseudo-marks are present without any official Dutch assay mark. ::::::

::::: The Dutch provinces that produced "antique-style" silver objects are mentioned in the "Hanau Silver" sub-category in the German Silver section, and a book is mentioned that might have more information: "Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland" by K.A. Citroen (published in 1977) but even this book might not have the answer as to why the Dutch pseudo-marks sometimes appear with official Dutch assay marks and sometimes the Dutch assay mark is absent. ::::::

[oel]

Please stop wondering. There are no Dutch provinces mentioned in de Hanau silver sub-category in the German Silver section. Mentioned is that the Netherlands had a thriving industry in antique reproduction marked with pseudo marks( better =fantasy marks.)
The Dutch work often had legitimate contemporary hallmarks stamped in addition to the pseudo marks but sometimes did not. "Valse zilvermerken In Nederland by K. A Citroen, published in 1977, is recommended for research in this era.
Please browse and read
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56948
If the pseudo marks appear in combination with legitimate contemporary Dutch hallmarks, insiders call them fantasy mark, part of the decoration. A cheap attempt to make it look older than it really is . If only pseudo marks without hallmarks, to make it look like an antique and a layman might mistake them for the "old hallmarks" of the guild period, before 1812. Insiders don't fall for it. Fake hallmarks are a different story, these can deceive insiders and the experts.


Peter.

[Aguest]

::::: That was a mistake from "Coyping-And-Pasting" to have that first "referred" in that sentence, the Dutch silver trade is briefly described in the Hanau silver forum and the reader therefore makes an inference that certain provinces were producing the silver, the same provinces mentioned in your informative Dutch thread, I was trying to find that thread but I could not find it. :::::::

[Aguest]

:::: The first use of the word "mentioned" is what I meant, it was just a "Copy-And-Paste" error. ::::::

[Essexboy Found]

Thank you Peter for the quick response to the question regarding the markings on the bonbon dish base. Was it uncommon to have the lion standard mark and not Minerva and the date letter in that early 20th century period? Is it your opinion that if I had "taken it home", I could likely have found the other 2 marks somewhere in the basket work? Regarding the "SH" mark, I should have remembered we have retailers marks on some Britiish silver items so why would it not be so in Holland.
Also thank you for the extended answer to August's added comment. The possibility that there was a mini industry using past "silver marks" for decorative purposes is worrying. However, now that knowledge is out, I am a better armed collector and possibly others will be as well.

Fishless

[oel]

You are welcome. Yes, I am sure the year letter and Minera head are there and spread over the basket. These could be very small marks.

Peter.