A doubious foldable cutlery

[amena]

Hi everyone
browsing the various online sales platforms, I found this foldable and transformable cutlery, which is described as being from the beginning of the 17th century






and compared to this other cutlery at the Musée national de la renaissance in Ecouen.




Frankly, I seem to see a huge difference in the quality of the two cutlery and the Dutch lion passant puts a big flea in my ear. I can hardly believe that a 17th century object was re-punched two centuries later.
What do you think?
Thanks for attention
Amena

Click images to enlarge

[oel]

Hi Amena,

Indeed, this folding cutlery set has been made late 19th-early 20th century. The marks at the back of the bowl are both pseudo maker's mark. The foldable cutlery was sent to the assay office as newly made and hallmarked accordingly, as seen inside the bowl with the lion passant 2nd standard mark (833), used 1814-1953. Not shown are the other to hallmarks; year letter and assay office mark. There could be a tiny maker's mark's (hexagon) above the 2nd prong.
Until 1953 all imported silver, or unmarked items, and invalid marked objects of foreign, national and unknown origin were marked with a duty mark. Duty marks like the boars head, the hatchet, dolphin mark, crowned or script V.
The 1953 marks renewal;
- Abolition and invalidation of all duty marks, including those for unguaranteed objects of national origin.
- Introduction of the ZI (925), ZII (835) and Z (800) marks for objects which are submitted in finished condition, which consequently could then not be assayed as thoroughly.

Regards,

Peter.

[amena]

Thanks Peter for confirming my suspicions.
Now, is it possible that a Belgian antique dealer would be so ignorant as not to realize that this crude cutlery is not from the early 17th century and cannot in any way be compared to the one in the museum?
But if he is perfectly aware that it is an imitation, how can he have the nerve to ask for the same sum that the museum paid?
I'm really baffled

[oel]

Hi Amena

I contacted the antique dealer who offered the folding cutlery set for sale. He said that he only acted as an intermediary, and was grateful for the information received. He kindly sent me some better images of all the marks. According to him the actual owner is an expert and the foldable cutlery is from his personal collection.The owner has been informed and in the meantime the item has been removed from the Antique's selling website. All's well that ends well.


The maker's mark R6. in hexagon for; J. H. Roelfsema or Firma Gebr (Brothers) Roelfsema. The brothers Roelfsema were located in the city of Winsum, province of Groningen. Registered from 1864 till 1910.

Below, Minerva head or assay office mark and year letter h for 1892.


Distorted W under crown (#367) pseudo year letter the Hague 1743


Three clovers (#431) pseudo maker’s mark.


For the pseudo marks and Firma Roelfsema see;
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 13#p184413

Peter.

Source: K. A. Citroen Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland, # 367 and #431.

[amena]

Hi Peter,
I must congratulate you -
First of all for your ability to see the marks you describe to us in what appear to be just dents.
Then for your authority in knowing how to make antique dealers listen to you.
Some time ago, on the same platform appeared a cutlery set described as Roman from 1840 which bore this childish "hallmark".

I asked the antique dealer for explanations, who didn't even reply, and he kept the advert for several months, until one day the overwriting SOLD appeared.
I feel sorry for the buyer, but what could I have done?