Early american Tankard?

wvandervelde · Post by **wvandervelde** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:43 pm

I recently acquired a tankard or cann (it's 6 inches tall, 3 3/4 wide at the base, with no lid) The interior is hammered, as well as the bottom(as would be expected on an early piece where the only finished area would be the exterior. )

I am certain it is American coin silver, as the dealer I bought it from had it tested for silver content and determined it was of south american origin(the silver that is) and as any coin silver collector might know, early american silversmiths got most of their silver from mexican(under spanish rule i believe) coins, from mines in mexico or peru(this info I obtained a long time ago from "Silver in America 1840-1940")

I am too excited to wait for my friend to bring his camera over so I can post pictures(my daughter microwaved mine-no joke-never touched it before in her life and hasn't touched it since-she microwaved it at 2, she's 3 now)

So now the mark-- It's J. P. G. stamped into the bottom. There is only one maker I have found so far in my (limited) resources that matches the initials, and it is that of John P. Grimke of Charleston S.C.,(found in Wyler's "The Book of Old Silver") but of course there is no picture of a mark and is by no means definitely (or even remotely) it. Any help till I can get some pictures up would be greatly appreciated. It is of very simple form, with no engraving except for the maker's marks
Thanks
Winston
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wvandervelde · Post by **wvandervelde** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:30 pm

It just struck me-hope i have not been "taken"(by myself) The mug(determined it is not a tankard-they have lids) could be south american and the initials added later?> Anyone ever heard of this? (and I'm certain it must happen?) The interior has very visible hammer marks-I don't know if an american smith would do such a thing, as well as the bottom.
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kerangoumar · Post by **kerangoumar** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:37 pm

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." . . or, in this case, your hopes for a silver find.

One of the largest areas of silver is of 'faking-reproducing-reinterpreting' and, while it is too early to say so in your case, given that we have to look carefully at the pictures before we can form any opinion, it is something that should be considered.

However:

First of all do not despair over the presence of hammer marks inside the cann. My daughter has an early Quebec silversmith's cup and plate, made by him for his daughter; the inside of the cup retains hammer marks. By themselves, hammer marks inside an item are not a disqualifier for either 'real' works, or 'authentic period pieces' or 'fine' works. There always have been different notions as to how finished the object should be.

Secondly, the natural human tendency is to wish or hope for their objects to be the finest, most valuable, earliest. We want the work to have been made by a great artist, not one who remains unknown. This colours our approach and - as is often seen in this forum - prevents our accepting the truth when it is determined.

Instead of fretting, and wavering from an early American smith to possibly having been "taken", you should wait. Get very clear pictures of the silver and the marks, then post them and see what comes up.
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wvandervelde · Post by **wvandervelde** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:54 am

thanks for the words of wisdom, it was in the moment that I was "fretting" I have settled my emotions since. I am becoming more certain that it isn't american. You will see what I mean when I post pictures.
Thanks again.
Winston
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